In our previous conversation, Genius Gets Real -- The Workshop of Life, we covered a wide array of related topics -- from brain chemistry, to transformation, to the formation of economies, to personal ethics, and beyond.
As what I hope to be a natural evolution of this conversation, I want to invite us to have a more focused conversation about how systems evolve in our world -- in particular how the economy has evolved from our underlying values systems (i.e. how our view of the world influences the way we sell, trade, or buy products and services amongst ourselves -- and what we believe should be sold vs. what we feel should be given; what should be profit-generating vs. what we feel should be "non-profit" and why).
I'm sure anyone who's been tracking this blog for long will realize it is at this intersection that we've regularly hit the wall, so to speak (i.e. simply reflect on our healthcare conversations). But it is at this very juncture that I think we can potentially experience the greatest breakthrough in our thinking.
So, let's begin by addressing this question: What underlying values do you believe have driven the creation of our economy? What values or beliefs do you think might keep us from exploring new options that might enable us to adapt our systems into a more sustainable model (or do you believe our system is already sustainable)?
From there we can certainly let it go where it will, but I'd like to stay within this general topic-region. I'm hoping that what we find here will generate both multiple a-has that we gain from each other, but that it might also lead us toward different actions.
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Passionate family:
ReplyDeleteIts interesting how we want someone to blame for the way the world is, I am sure Thomas W would agree that we have created our own world, and like it or not, it’s a product of who we are and what works best in his terms.
I heard about a world before the second Great War where a family could afford to have one bread winner. This was a world in America that had racism to women and black men. The ideas were spread to Europe where a man named Hitler believed in creating the perfect race which came from our writers and thinkers here in America. This world would attempt to stop Hitler from taking over the world, put women to work to support the war effort and send most of its men to Europe to win that war. Some might argue it was really Russia that won World War II, but our efforts made a difference no matter what side of the argument you are on.
So after this great Second World War, men returned, some women went back to being house wives, but many didn’t want to lose to power they had gained. After all, they knew these white men had racist backgrounds and in some cases dominated women with their money. The economy responded, now that we had two incomes, we spent more, and the cost of goods increased.
In that time before the Great war we didn’t know the effects of smoking, or all these cancer causing products, and marketing was just beginning to understand the power of subliminal and repetition to create unconscious buying behavior from the general public.
Let’s face it, we are simple human beings. We want to avoid pain and seek pleasure. We were farmers and cave men not too long ago in the history of the world. Now, in this modern era we could make a conscious effort to find out what companies are good or bad, and make conscious choices that will make the corporation that doesn’t care about anything but the bottom line to gain a consciousness.
But we are simple, we can only focus on 7 things consciously at a time, and with (1) my kids, (2) bills (3) wife (4) job (5) housework (6) economy decline (7) War in Iraq (8) retirement (9) and the list goes on…. My only hope is to program my unconscious mind to take over some of my activities. While I am working on programming myself, billions of dollars are being spent to figure out how to program my subconscious mind to spend more money on the corporation!
Thomas G
--and so here we are being with good intentions, wanting to make a difference and transform to world that will change when its good and ready.
I'm going to be very interested in this conversation. I know my initial response to the questions posed here were simple (but reactive):
ReplyDelete"Our economy is based on our addictions, pure and simple."
If one looks at the unavoidable evidence before us in our world today, it appears clear that we (or could it be the illusive "they") have created an economic system that pushes the vast majority of us into overdrive. Cortisol (the stress hormone), for many people has become the drug of choice. If not checked, the pertetual release of this and other stress-related hormones sear our bodies and minds like acid.
And yet, when given the choice as to whether to continue living under a stressful environment or not, many people choose to return to that habitual lifestyle for what I believe is one simple reason: they are addicted to stress and the hormone cocktail it generates.
We continue to raise the bar higher, make life more challenging and complicated, and -- perhaps most critically of all -- ceasingly raise expectations as to what we feel we "should" have (and for anyone who's studied stress, you understand the implications here -- being unable to productively handle unmet expectations is the foundational building block of stress).
My answer points to one of what I'm sure are many causes -- but after seeing an endless line of patients suffering from stress-related maladies, who seem to refuse to alter the course of their life, in spite of the consequences they create, one has to wonder just how significantly our addictive nature plays into this whole sceanrio.
Joe
Speaking of addiction.
ReplyDeleteI found a drug that really works to quit smoking tobacco.
Chantix
Unlike wellbutrin and nicotin patches/gum combination which didn't work for me.
This drug stopped my body from taking in nicotine which caused a dopamine release, which I am addicted too. It blocks the nicotine from creating the dopamine release.
They are using the same technique to create vacines for heroin addicts, or a shot for cocain addicts.
I have spoke about this before, but the reason I share it again is I just heard that some people committed suicide while on the drug and they want to get it pulled from the shelves.
I know that their is some rare cases of having to withdrawl from Chantix, but thats easy, just cut up the pills and slowly take it down like any drug.
But I think that those people who committed suicide probably had other mental problems, so I really hope the industry doesnt stop this trend in ending addiction.
Joseph, sadly I tend to agree with you. I'm not an economist, but when I consider the countless throngs who've paid me a vist because they've driven themselves to the edge because of their relentless drive to acquire the unnecessary, it is indeed a strongly addicitive tendency that keeps the wheels of commerce turning.
ReplyDeleteAnd Thomas, several of your comments make me smile and wince simultaneously:
"We were farmers and cave men not too long ago in the history of the world."
"While I am working on programming myself, billions of dollars are being spent to figure out how to program my subconscious mind to spend more money on the corporation!"
At this moment, I heave a sigh and pray that though it truly appears we have not traversed too far from the cave door, we might actually be witnessing more awakening than not. Time will ultimately tell, but in the meantime, it seems that even if it is delusional, working to assist in an awakening is the only reasonable solution.
Dot P.
Now if someone could create a drug that provided a cure for shop-o-holics... Lordy, Lordy, that would be something!
ReplyDeleteJoseph –
ReplyDeleteAs a follow up to your comment, with which I agree, BTW, I wonder if we can take a collective look at the mechanisms which appear to precede and foster the development of addictions in individuals…..I understand (although I am by no means an expert!!!) the psychological underpinnings, functions and chemical effects of addictions. However, I think that maybe we should move away from the individually based analysis of addictions and look further at the societal patterns, norms and functions which lay at least some of the foundation for the development of addictions. Maybe I am completely off my rocker here, but I simply do not believe that addictions are uniquely individually developed….
Much has been said and written about human and social capital throughout the last 100 years. Maybe addictions fit in those categories as well as they may appear in individual economies/assessment thereof?
And, on a complete different note, I can’t prevent myself from quoting the following passage from a required reading in one of my current university classes:
“In an effort to cope with the incomprehensibility of infinite reality, we ever-curious, ever-pondering, compulsively controlling Homo sapiens create theoretical models. These models are ingenious beams of speculation that we use to penetrate and define the dark boundaries of endless existence.” (G. McKenzie/Orbiting the Giant Hairball: A Coroporate Fool’s Guide to Surviving with Grace)
Anonymous, you're right on the money (pun intended). While we certainly all have our individual addictions, I agree that we have a far greater discussion ahead, if we delve into the societal underpinnings.
ReplyDeleteShayla also voiced a similar desire in her post this afternoon. For some reason, as happens on occasion her comment did not publish. Since this happens from time to time, I've learned to save people's comments before pushing "Publish" just in case.
Her comment follows mine.
I'm quite honestly relieved that we've moved into a more coherent discussion. Our last topic had me spinning for lack of direction.
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm hoping we are all willing to do with this topic is dig deeper -- much deeper actually -- so that we might take a hard, clear look at what motivates our actions across our communities and countries.
There is a spiritual pandemic, I believe, at play and since so few individuals are willing to even consider that something may be seriously amiss with our foundations, I am hoping to find kinship and exploration with this noble (or perhaps ignoble) gathering.
Either way, I send much love to you all,
Shayla
There is a most interesting question I am wanting to ask. For many years of the past U.S. economy prospered by exploiting other lands. This was often a thing of pride spoken to me by business men. India experienced very much bad impact in that time from this carelessness.
ReplyDeleteToday I hear many U.S. business men complaining that India takes jobs from Americans. They say that China has purchased many U.S. companies.
I am curious about this change in attitude. If it is appropriate for more prosperous nations to grow their economies by advantages over the less prosperous, why is this not still a value when trend reverses? It would seem that this is a confusing value. Perhaps someone could explain this to me as it appears there is some understanding I a missing.
Sunjab,
ReplyDeleteI would be the first to say bad things about America being an American.
But I think your words don’t convey the context they were intended.
I know your English is not perfect, nor is mine.
America prospered for many reasons, both good and bad.
India suffered for many reasons, not just because of America.
People complain about everything, that’s what humans do; they transfer guilt to not take responsibility for it themselves. Its one thing to be responsible and tell the truth, it’s another thing to take responsibility for the outcome of the world.
We have discussed this topic before, it would be good, if we all saw everything as our responsibility, so we would have a context to make the world a better place, but the reality is as individuals we may be powerful when we choose to be responsible for the whole world and all of history, but we simply don’t typically have that much power.
All countries thrive in democracy when they control others, the alternative is social democracy or communism, which both seem to have their own problems. America is not the only one guilty of profiting off the backs of poor people and the masses.
But I think your comments might have been rhetorical in nature.
Best,
Tom
Yes, Tom. You have caught me at my game. My very point was this, that we humans are very funny when it comes to values. Sometimes what we think is fair, does not seem so when we turn tables.
ReplyDeleteI had a secret desire to also engage our other Thomas as well as I thought he might react to my words. Perhaps he has gone off to other places. We will see.
But it was the Anonymous writer who asked says:
"Much has been said and written about human and social capital throughout the last 100 years. Maybe addictions fit in those categories as well as they may appear in individual economies/assessment thereof?"
This is a very important question. Do you hear this? It is true. We have come to see societies and human beings as "capital". This rationalization has led to much criminal behavior by us when we are in powerful positions.
What is it that runs through our minds that has lead us to do what we do? We are very peculiar animals it would seem.
Sunjab,
ReplyDeleteLet me play the Thomas W card...
If we were all Buddhist, knowing that desire and addiction is the root of suffering, where would the world be today?
Now the Judeo/Christian world by the true nature of Christ would have us be more like Buddhist, but the protestants came along and said if you are rich then God is blessing you, and the Protestants said that its ok to pray for thing/desires you wish in your life and God will bless you with these things possibly.
So, the Protestants forged on and created the new world called America with the value of praying for yourself and your desires, and being rich was a blessing from God.
Now, if we were all Buddhist or really being the nature that Christ had intended, where would we be?
Is there value that we have raised more people out of pain and suffering then have ever been raised out of pain and suffering in the history of the world?
Have we really raised people out of pain and suffering? Or have we just provided people in the first world with food/clean water/medical health/education? Which has left them with too much time to create new problems for themselves and suffer more?
As I look at true Buddhist as opposed to wanna be Buddhist, I see two different worlds. The monk sits and reaches level of consciousness but needs the working suffering people of the world to give them free rice and water. The wanna be Buddhist, has a more peaceful nature, but is bullied by the communist and other capitalist people of the world that will attack those that are weak.
And so the irony, which is the way, Thomas W might say, the only balance is the path we are on now, and people will complain depending on which side of the fence they are on as the look at the Grass filled with cow dung that looks so much better on the other side.
Best,
Tom
I have enjoyed the recent blog entries and thought I would contribute some thoughts.
ReplyDeleteI did not grow up in the United States of America. I was 15 when I moved to Utah from New Zealand. I know what I am about to say is not anything new, however I think it is time I looked honestly at some of the motivations which have driven my personal economy which ultimately ripples out and creates the larger economy.
What I have noticed in myself and have experienced in America at large is capitalization upon perfectionism and competitiveness. By focusing on insecurities fostered within a culture, marketing will often re-enforce ‘who or what we are not’ and then provide a solution; their products or services with promises ranging from confidence, security, intelligence, sexiness, peace of mind, a better social status etc; these are often very seductive.
I recall reading a chapter from a book entitled “The Creature from Jekyll Island.” I am not sure of the exact date; I think it was some time between 1910 and 1913, several meetings involving the worlds top Industrialist was held on Jekyll Island the likes of J. P Morgan, the Rockefeller’s were involved in forming the Federal Reserve of today. Because of the limited time and space on the blog I’ll paraphrase the part I read.
Surveys were done comparing happiness between the wealthy and the very poor. What was discovered was that wealth was not necessarily the component that created happiness, on a scale of 1-5 the difference between the groups was ½ a point with the ‘Haves’ being slightly happy than the ‘Have not’s.
This was somewhat a surprise to the industrialists so part of the discussion revolved around how to substitute what provided happiness, social and spiritual connections within a community (this understanding became apparent from the responses of the surveys) with materialism.
I wish I had the book because the direct quotes from the minutes of the meetings would have your jaw drop. It was nothing short of pure exploitation. What I realized was that some of the most powerful and wealthy men consciously built business practices using models that were designed to disconnect people from each other and then replace these sources of happiness with goods and services designed to create peak momentarily satisfaction thus fueling addictive spending behavior.
I think our challenge lies in our ability to hold onto our inherent value as human beings rather than succumb to the culture’s definition of worth. I realize I live within a society that has become addicted to perfectionism, where normal and ordinary are no longer considered valuable.
Independence is venerated in the United States which has unfortunately digressed into the Limbic and Reptilian level of the brain (where the Fight part of our survival system operates) so we compete in our daily lives to get ahead; we have affectionately named it the “American Dream”.
Yes there are times to compete; I am in no way promoting mediocrity. What I am asking of myself and others is to notice in my pursuit of happiness am I having regard for other human beings and life at large. I think a “Declaration of Interdependence” is needed.
As citizens we might begin to acknowledge that profit is not the only desirable outcome of a business, but what other positive impacts can also be developed that add value to the whole. As for possible business mission or vision statements we might consider adopting values such as these…”Man did not weave the web of life-he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself.” Chief Seattle
Or
"In our every deliberation we must consider the impact of our decisions on the next seven generations", Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy
I’ll finish with an admonishment from President Bush during a State of the Nation address last year, “we need to support our economy, go shopping.”
Who decided we are consumers and no longer American citizens, sounds like a label I am no longer willing to participate with?
Regards,
MAK (Michael)
Michael all of your comments made me stop, think, and eventually nod in reluctant agreement (my reluctance simply stemming from the fact that I wish it weren't so). One of your paragraphs was of particular interest:
ReplyDelete"I realize I live within a society that has become addicted to perfectionism, where normal and ordinary are no longer considered valuable."
First thing that hit me was that somehow we have created a very subjective definition of "Perfect" that seems to be a constantly moving target (as was the strategy of the Jekyll's Island meeting and many marketing meetings afterward).
What's more, we have projected this notion of perfectionism upon our kids to the point where we are signing them up for schools before they're born in order to ensure that they achieve the measure of excellence we need them to in order to feel okay about ourselves.
Excellence is a wondrous thing. I spend a lot of my time helping organizations and people create this experience amongst themselves. But it's how we define excellence that is most critical.
If the definition we create together as a society is focused on the long term interest of those who come after us (as Michael suggested), and includes our growing more deeply in integrity, holistic awareness, compassion, personal and collective responsibility (as Tom points out), as well as creating beneficial profits, wherever appropriate (but not at the expense of other values), and so on, then we perhaps see that our ability to live such values is not an improvement upon our inherent worth, but instead a practice that helps us realize or manifest that worth in the way we interact with each other and the world.
On the other hand, if the values we encourage are superficial, short-term focused, driven by a desire for profit at all cost, and point us toward excessive consumerism, a lack of compassion, and the sense that we are never quite good enough, etc. (which certainly seems to have been the case) then we're headed down an increasingly dangerous road together.
Thanks, to all of you for heralding a warning to us. The question is, what do we do about it?
Passionate People Who Want to Make a Difference!
ReplyDeleteSome of you may or may not like Michael Moore, but his movie “the corporation” addresses the problem that we have created in America.
It’s not enough to change ourselves, because we work for the corporations of America, they have our money and our time/energy.
The problem isn’t even the Government which we tend to want to blame, because the corporations own the Government, the Government does what the corporation want, and the Corporation is us in so many ways.
We must legally change the Way Corporation exist in America today. They are considered a person by law, but not legally liable like a human being. So we must remove the legal jargon that makes corporations have the rights of Humans. These Corporations have the rights of Humans, yet they also, because they are not human, are not held liable. There/our money pays any liability the corporations have and its business as usual.
Thomas W would probably be very upset by this idea, but unless corporations have checks and balance of some sort, then our efforts will not win.
Best,
Thomas Gallagher
Anna has informed me that my name is apparently being taken in vain in “the blog” (as if this particular one is the only blog in existence).
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, having taken some time over the last several days to read through the comments in this most recent topic, I must say that I am quite relieved to see that we have departed from confessional mode and returned to a conversation of substance. Having been raised as a Catholic, you can imagine my utter repulsion at the notion of public confessions.
I am poised to fly to our nation’s capitol, where greed and confusion runs rampant and pretense is as ubiquitous as tea in England, so I’ll summarize my thoughts quickly prior to boarding.
Over the last 50 years, in particular, there has been a gradual movement to shift our values in the U.S. Once upon a time being a good citizen meant making decisions and acting in such a manner as to benefit the long term interest of one’s family, town, state, and nation. Depleting one’s bank account and thus having no savings was viewed as unwise. Going in debt was even worse. Purchasing unnecessary items was a habit not engaged in by those of the bourgeois class.
Along with such cunning strategies as planned obsolescence, a broader strategy emerged which accomplished the same goal -- increased consumption by the public. This newer iteration was, however, even more pernicious in nature.
To boil it down to its most condensed form, while the previous message of marketers was: “You are not enough, but you can get closer if you’ll buy this,” the new more cunning spin became: “You’re not enough, but you deserve to be. In fact, you can have it all. You may be middle class rats, but you can live like you’re those upper class fat cats that you love to hate -- and you should. After all, why should they have it all? Here, my friends, we’ll lend you the money to help you be all that you can and have every right to be.” Even religion jumped on board -- and so-called “spirituality”, which quickly and repeatedly has leveraged this message into a series grand “Secrets.”
What has accompanied this increasingly overt and subtly and subliminally implemented strategy -- as my imposter, Tom, has previously pointed out -- is the co-opting of our nation’s political leaders. Through the increasingly blatant influence of moneyed interests, political figures have become key players in the strategy. The resulting message therefore, which heralds from Washington is this: One is now considered to be an increasingly better citizen the more one consumes in order to help stimulate the economy.
The fact that our dramatic national and personal debt underlies a plethora of our economic challenges is, of course, not discussed. No, just the opposite message is relayed to the public -- “We, as your government, will happily go even more deeply into debt in order to send you money so that you might continue purchasing items for which you have no real need. The unspoken message is, of course, “It’s of national importance that you not use this “rebate” to pay down your debt. God forbid. You must put it to good use -- shop, buy, consume.”
Thus instead of making sound decisions based upon an understanding of how to truly preserve our personal and collective interest, we are told that good citizenship is now dependent upon our willingness to be increasingly self-centered. If you want something, please buy it now. It matters not if you can afford it -- worry not about the broader impact of your insatiable appetites, the nation needs you to spend irresponsibly.
As I have espoused from the moment I entered this dialogue, we must come to deal with the fact that there are many forces at play whose interests are served by creating a growth economy that is akin to cancer. The economy will (and perhaps must) grow, but learning to participate in the economy responsibly as a genuine citizen of conscience, is of paramount importance.
My time is up for the airline hostess calls. I have been far more verbose and bellicose than I intended. Nonetheless, one final thought in parting. Corporations, young Thomas, are immune not because they have the rights of people, but because they have been given rights as separate nation states. It is the people who form the corporations who have gained some measure of immunity as they hide behind the corporate shield which legally protects them from litigators so long as they have not violated the law. The Corporation itself, however, is not a citizen of any country -- but is in a league of its own.
Welcome back, Thomas W. Always nice to have your perspective in the mix. I would like to add a comment to our overall conversation that plays off from one of your last statements.
ReplyDeleteSometimes we take on a tone (or at least that's my perception) that it's corporations or the government or Madison Avenue or some "they" out there that has led us into disaster.
At the end of the day, though, it is we who have allowed this to happen -- and who have willingly participated in the game. We've allowed ourselves to be "co-opted." Most of us know better, but because "someone" has made being irresponsible appear to be legitimate, we've thrown caution to the wind and said, Hell, yeah. Why not?
To Thomas W.'s point, until we learn "to participate in the economy as a genuine citizen of conscience" we have no one to blame but ourselves.
Thomas W.
ReplyDeleteYour post this morning reminded me of previous thoughts I've had about the fact that the left/right, liberal/conservative "spectrum" is really a complete red herring that certain elements of the power structure play skillfully to keep their advantage. It doesn't really do anything to address the issues you're discussing, because the issues are really much more pragmatic and straightforward and ultimately, very personal.
The comment has been made repeatedly that changing on a personal and local level won't change anything because of the power of the established interests like corporations, etc. I would like to submit that while that may be true, unless we BEGIN at that level, I don't think larger changes have a chance in hell of taking root. If we quit buying the stuff the corporations make and even scarier, stopped working for them, how long would their power last? I think a lot more of the reason we don't change is because taking responsibility for our lives and for each other in that way is scary, pure and simple.
It's come up here before, but I would recommend to all of you "The Paradigm Conspiracy: How Our Social Institutions Damage Human Potential", by Christopher Largent and Denise Breton. The use of the word "conspiracy" in the title might be off-putting to some, but it couldn't be farther from a book about aliens and secret societies. The conspiracy in the title is the one we've run on ourselves, and that's much scarier than alien invasions or secret governments.I regard it as a central text for the discussion we're having now. I know that both Chris and I have had our minds pretty powerfully tweaked by it.
Welcome Back Thomas W,
ReplyDeleteSo while our president and Corporate run government tells us to spend to solve the problem of terrorism and our economic decline in the world.
They have reversed the right to claim bankruptcy (Chapter 7). This law came from the Jewish Law. In Jewish Law, It was ok to have a slave for 7 years, but after that, they should be set free. Now days in America, its 10 years until you can claim bankruptcy again, and by the way only a Chapter 11 will be accepted. The message is we are going to train you all to be irresponsible, hitting you up in college when you are the most vulnerable, and lock you into debt for the rest of your life. We did you a favor by letting you have this credit to buy a house and things you don’t need or need, thus you owe us your whole life. We know you don’t have the credit for a house or these things, but we will give you 100% financing anyways, because hell, you have to pay it back someday. We are the credit companies that gave you wealth, and we demand complete control over everything.
Thomas W writes, “Corporations, young Thomas, are immune not because they have the rights of people, but because they have been given rights as separate nation states. It is the people who form the corporations who have gained some measure of immunity as they hide behind the corporate shield which legally protects them from litigators so long as they have not violated the law.”
Thomas W, thank you for the correction on the corporate rights, still my point is we need checks and balances on these corporations that have the rights of separate nation states. To say that these corporation only get punished if they break the law is to stretch the truth quite a bit, Corporation are breaking the law all the time and getting away with it most of the time. A lawyer would by use of words and a little white lie, say no laws were broken, and the same white lie might come from a word smith.
I respect everyone’s views on personal responsibility, and I believe that we should all just grow up and pull it together. But please don’t ignore our situation, follow the money, you will see a need for checks and balances on corporation’s soulless greed. And yes, I mean they, are a problem, along with us.
I am sure our professor Thomas W is going to give me a good verbal spanking for these comments. I really do like your words and value that you would take the time to discuss these topics with a young man who has much to learn.
Best,
Thomas Gallagher
The young imposter
The argument of youth will only get you so far, Thomas. At a certain point, one has to simply acknowledge that we are all students of life, old or young. Those who think otherwise will most certainly prove themselves to be fools.
ReplyDeleteYour reference to Jewish Law regarding bankruptcy is only partially correct. It's actual origins stem from what is known as the Sabbatical year.
The Sabbatical year was actually set forth in the Torah in what has become known as the book of Deuteronomy. More specifically the key passage states, “At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release. And this is the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth ought unto his neighbor shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbor, or of his brother; because it is called the Lord’s release. (Deuteronomy 15:1-2).
As one proceeds forward in history, we find a similar reference to this law in the Book of Nehemiah, where it proclaims, “And if the peoples of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy of them on the sabbath, or on a holy day; and that we would forego the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt.” (Nehemiah 10:32).
In general, a Sabbatical Year requires the cancellation of all debts, whether oral or in writing, even if the contract or written agreement contains a clause that places a a lien on the borrower’s property as a means of securing a loan. A learned Rabbi, Rav Kook, described the Sabbatical year this way:
“The seventh year serves to rectify the social ills and inequalities that accumulate in society over the years. When poorer segments of society borrow from the wealthy, they feel beholden to the affluent elite. “The debtor is a servant of the lender” [Proverbs 22:7]. This form of subservience can corrupt even honest individuals in their dealings with the rich and powerful. The Sabbatical year comes to correct this situation of inequality and societal rifts, by removing a major source of power of the elite: debts owed to them.”
In modern times, unless one is an observant Jew, the Sabbatical Year is, for better or for worse not observed. That said, its seven year cycle of debt forgiveness forms the philosophical underpinnings for the original version of Chapter 7 in the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. Both approaches were designed to allow for the forgiveness of debts, and both serve the same societal purpose.
Clearly the mood changed within the realm of our nation's lawmakers who have seen fit to swing the pendulum the other direction in favor of creditors who have gleefully responded by extending privileges even more irresponsibly. The public followed suit and as jumped in headlong.
It is my feeling that personal responsibility, as advocated by many here, is the foundation to any solutions we will create together. Adopting this approach will not only help us to better manage our own lives, but to also get involved in the political process (and that includes going far beyond the most basic privilege we have to vote).
To sit by and complain and point the finger may make us feel good, but until we are willing to take the "scary" risks bko describes, we are simply like frogs complaining that the water is getting to warm in the pot.
Sincerely,
Anna
Anna,
ReplyDeleteWell said!
I am not saying the answers don’t lie in personal responsibility.
I only made the "young" comment because Thomas W referred to me as young and being an imposter. I was attempting to be respectful of Thomas W because I have high regard for him based on his writings. He was quite nice to me when he considered me a veteran of the Gulf War.
I am approaching 40 this year, with three kids. I am not young anymore, although some might say so by my lack of good grammar and detailed research.
I hope that I may still make a go at this blog because I bring good intention and the best skills I have with every post.
Best,
Tom
As only the daughter of a Rabbi can do, Anna has schooled us most effectively on the Law. Thank you, kind lady. Lucille sends her regards.
ReplyDeleteI am afraid that, as for me, I slept my way through most biblical classes as the nuns were far more interested in using such passages to stimulate guilt than to encourage deeper thinking.
On that note, ponder with me my colleagues, why have we allowed our power as citizens to be eroded, dissipated and diluted to such an extent that we, as a general populace, cast blame in every direction other than our own. The more I ruminate on this topic, the more I am surprised to find myself engaged in an internal debate on the subject.
Then, once again, the book entitled, "The Paradigm Conspiracy" has been held up as a receptacle of wisdom on this topic. Resistant as I have been to the mere mention of the title, you've captured my curiosity. Since I am one who does not engage in light reading, but rather enjoys delving into topics which are of substantial weight, I may relinquish the fight and purchase a copy. It may just come in handy as a useful tool in passing my time on my next flight to London.
Naturally, I'm bound to object to a fair share of what is included therein, but it appears that I may find myself more in agreement with its concepts than I might expect or want.
I leave you with well wishes for your weekend and with the surprising admission that yet again I am intrigued and stimulated by our conversation.
Thomas W.
Thomas W. I encountered some technical difficulties while posting your last comment. I am not sure that I copied your entire comment prior to saving it (I may have missed a sentence at the beginning) . When I published it and the whole comment disappeared, I then re-posted it again twice before it stuck. If I have left anything out, feel free to email me and I'll add it back in and re-post.
ReplyDeleteThanks, and pardon the glitches,
Christopher
Anna, my friend, does your last statement mean that you will soon be leaving corporate America? Or do you and I together still have a pact that we will grapple with the issues of personal integrity for a while longer?
ReplyDeleteJust curious,
Ellio
Thomas W., while you're waiting to purchase "The Paradigm Conspiracy," let me give you a quote to whet your appetite. Speaking of why the system has been structured in a particular way that diminishes right-brained values (i.e. holism, systems-thinking and long-term outlooks) that do not support the current paradigm, the authors state:
ReplyDelete"Values are too subversive, too threatening. They have a nasty habit of introducing perspectives that redraw the game and invite whole-minded paradigm shifts."
With that thought in mind, it seems obvious why one of the keys to manipulating a population and an economy, is to re-program its values. Once people have allowed themselves to be trained to operate from a different set of underlying values (ones which seem so logical and true that we no longer even question them), one's behavior becomes quite predictable.
As the character on "Laugh-In" used to say, "Verrry interesting."
I’m encouraged by this conversation, because I am grateful, one might say, to hear that my perception of the world is not nearly as unique as I had feared. In an effort to add to the conversation, I would like to refer back to my original premise regarding this topic -- that of addiction. Is it not logical that the more chaotic and unpredictable one can make the world appear to be, the greater the desire for control will be amongst those who experience that subjective reality?
ReplyDeleteLoss of control stimulates a sense of victimization and is accompanied by anxiety and the symptoms of stress. At a certain point, every biological creature will seek relief from such feelings. Consumerism, as Thomas W. has suggested, has been offered as the ultimate drug -- it both soothes the anxiety one feels, satisfies one’s longing for privilege, while simultaneously providing one a sense of good citizenship. Yet, like all addictive remedies, consumerism's high is not long lasting and thus one falls back into anxiousness (only now with a slightly heightened sense of desperation, despair, or quiet hopelessness).
Now here's the real beauty of this scenario. If you are both addicted to the high that comes from relieving anxiety (matters not what form the relief takes), yet are also equally hooked on the stress itself and the endocrine cocktail it produces, you are like the bouncing ball in the old video game, "Pong".
So as long as we continue to mainline that anxious feeling that accompanies a loss of power and control that we then fill one superficial way or the other, we are easily distracted from the more important matters at play -- we also prime to be manipulated to continue on the same empty path, seeking a solution that only anchors us more strongly into our dilemma.
While I am not necessarily a believer in large-scale conspiracies, I do have a strong respect for the concept of collective consciousness. Fear is a pervasive virus. Shopping is an easy fix. This has become such common knowledge amongst the marketer’s world that full texts are written on the subject. It's not a conspiracy; it's now simply a science. Create a sense of lack, a sense of entitlement, add in a dash of “eat, drink, and be merry,” and you have the ideal atmosphere needed to hypnotize the masses into impotent complacency. We’ve convinced ourselves that calling into talk shows to kvetch is being action-oriented. And after we have done so, we reward ourselves by being the good citizens we are and spending money we don’t have.
One must also remember that for much of the ruling class, keeping the middle class distracted makes life so much easier. Our American Middle Class has become, after all, the most under-educated, culturally and politically illiterate demographic in the First World. Little else could better please those who hold positions of power than to have their constituency woefully out-of-touch and dependent upon them and their pundits for the “truth.” Might this be a result of conspiracy? Perhaps. But it also might simply be the fact that most humans are simply not up for the challenge of dealing with the complexities of the life we have jointly created as we have searched for the ultimate answers.
Ultimately the question is, has the public become such powerless junkies that they will choose the safe predictability of imprisonment within the paradigm; or will we take the courageous steps required to step back into the vast unknown world of personal responsibility. For, make no mistake about it, holistic thinking requires a level of awareness and a willingness to see and understand the big picture that many of us have simply been unwilling to adopt or reclaim.
I've said more than enough, I'm sure. But this is, I believe, the first time I've really let my own stream of consciousness follow the thread through the matrix and approach the other side. It's a bit daunting, but I am hopefully amidst friends who understand what I'm truly trying to say.
Joseph,
ReplyDeleteYou just very nicely restated the entire premise of the book I recommended in the last post. Your ideas are not as strange as they may seem to you and there are a lot of us out here. I think it's really just a function of the fact that these ideas have been in bad odor in the halls of academia and more mainstream settings until relatively recently but that's happily beginning to change.
The authors of the book may have done themselves a disservice in using the word "conspiracy" in their title, because it certainly seems that all "serious" people take great pains to distance themselves from the concept, given its considerable loony baggage. However, if you take a look at the book, you will see very quickly that the authors, while ultimately whole-minded, are also very solid thinkers who are looking at precisely what you're talking about. They are using "conspiracy" to describe something completely different than some large-scale manipulation by shadowy malevolent elements of the government or lizard people in the tunnels under Sedona or whatever. They are describing, at base, what we have done to ourselves, and in turn, allowed to be done to us by the structures we've created.
A significant percentage of my work is concentrated directly on addiction, and I do it in the most basic and "on the ground" setting imaginable. It sounds to me as though you operate in a much more research oriented setting than I do, but my experience leads me to the same conclusions you have been suggesting in your recent posts. If you look at the book, you'll see very quickly why I made the reference, because Largent and Breton are proposing the very same things and they've opened up the ideas in ways that I have found greatly fascinating and helpful. My reasons for suggesting it are grounded in the fact that it seems to provide a distillation of the very complex creature we all seem to be trying to push into. Not an end all and be all, certainly, but perhaps a useful common starting point for a much larger discussion among this wonderful assemblage of, to use KBF's term of long ago, "delightful misfits"?
It's obvious that these ideas are big enough that the discussion has needed some time to marinate. One branch of our scientific contingent has provided a model for us to consider, many of us are wrestling with huge personal ethical dilemmas, we are starting to really look at the necessity of reintegrating economy into our ethical and spiritual base. And Sunjab, you have been laboring mightily from far away to point us in this direction lately and I have really appreciated your perspective. I for one am grateful for the view of someone who can look back at us with some different eyes and help us see ourselves more clearly as we wrestle with these very difficult questions. I look forward to further discussion with you all.
As the old movie title says, "All's Quiet on the Western Front."
ReplyDeleteEvery time the discussion comes to a pause, I'm always curious as to what might be going on behind the scenes. Life is busy coming at us? We've paused to let it all soak in? We're reading up on relevant material? We've tuned out because it the topic went to far out of our relevance zone?
Whatever that might be, drop a note if time allows and give us a peak into your world. The suspense sometimes is deafening.
Thanks,
Christopher
As for me, I have to be careful not to reveal too much personal confession as I might stop the flow of conversation, but a lot is happening right now.
ReplyDeleteIt’s interesting as I move from pointing the finger at the problems of life outside, and everyone says that all our problems are really not outside but inside, what else is there to say?
I was hoping for more talk about personal responsibility from those that put it out there, or maybe a workshop on personal responsibility as this section invited us to do, but my very open sharing wasn’t a good conversation starter.
Either way, every post from you brilliant people is a great blessing of insight and learning, please share anything and everything, we are all listening!
"The truth doesn't mean anything. It just is."
--Werner Erhard
Pardon the lag in my response time. I do, as bko ascertained, function in a research setting (in both the U.S. and Canada) but I also work off-hours and some weekends in a clinic. Staying in touch on the patient-front is essential to me being able to truly understand the value (or lack thereof) of our research. It is also extremely rewarding.
ReplyDeleteSince I'm a Canadian citizen, I am not quite so burdened with the quagmire currently suffered by most of you who might be living State-side. Nonetheless, the tendencies for under-care are still present here, with the biggest challenge I encounter being the mounting stress in our day-to-day environment.
Though we have a much greater safety net, we are very much tied to the ups and downs of the U.S. economy as a whole. It is worth noting, however, that as a general statement, the Canadian values-system differs somewhat significantly from that in the U.S. In some regards this may abet some of out stressors, but it also adds a few.
To the heart of bko's and other comments, I am familiar with "The Paradigm Conspiracy" not from having read it, but from having heard its principles discussed in several settings. I view it (again, perhaps somewhat ignorantly since my information is second-hand) as a therapeutic treatise, rather than the political piece that some may fear.
Certainly anytime we begin to poke around at the foundations of our core cultures we are invariably going to rustle up reactions from those with political motivations or position, but I haven't heard mention of this book having a political leaning, but rather a bit of a revelatory approach to lifting the skirts of the entire power structure to discover what's really there (that may not be the best use of metaphor, but I believe you understand what I mean).
My deeper question, as has been raised before is, what does one do to go about releasing oneself, first and foremost, from the paradigm. I'd very much enjoy hearing some of your approaches and how successful you've been, what difficulties you've encountered, etc.
I ask this from quite a practical standpoint as I am regularly giving suggestions to my patients to help them with their own attempts at re-ordering their lives. And yes, I most definitely will order the book as well. Tried to find it at the local Cole's Book Store (our equivalent of Barnes & Noble), but they did not have it. There's always the online order, which is where I'll turn next.
But please, I'm most earnest when I ask for you to share your experiences and hope that I'm not being too bold by doing so. I’d also appreciate learning more about your methodology bko, in terms of treating addiction, for as I mentioned previously I think addiction to a variety of substitute solutions is pervasive.
Good day to you all,
Joseph H.
Joseph, I think your take on the book is right on as far as its general tenor. I think many people are thinking about a political screed because of the title, but it’s actually very solid in its approach. For example, the authors base their opening points on basic principles from Thomas Kuhn’s “The Structure of Scientific Revolutions”, and you can’t get much more mainstream than that. Your idea of lifting up the skirts of the existing structures is an excellent way to put it. My reason for recommending it is that it’s a really unique synthesis that takes a more clear-eyed critical view of the basic assumptions of the modern world than is usually seen. Some may dispute its conclusions, but most would be hard-pressed to avoid its questions, and that’s its primary utility for us. We would do well to look at that or something like it because that work has already been done and there’s no use trying to hack through any tall grass we don’t have to. I haven’t been talking about it in order to promote their ideas or their book. I just think it’s a very practical work that might help us cut to the chase a bit, because, as you certainly are aware, this is a HUGE subject.
ReplyDeleteWhich brings me to your question about my approach to addictions. The central premise the authors work from is that we won’t have any success with our drug and alcohol problems until we acknowledge the abusive, addiction producing nature of the general systems of the society and their tendency to produce addictive behaviors in ALL of us. They are clear about the idea of substance addiction, but they also identify the category of process addictions, which is actually much more pervasive and generalized in the society. These can include shopping, sex, work, money, accomplishment, pace, religion, seminars and any number of other non-chemical things, including emotional states like rage, for example. Any behavior that gets taken to extremes that cause a person to harm themselves or others on any level in order to continue it. Your comment about pervasive addiction to substitutes is right on, as far as I’m concerned and why I find this particular book to be a powerful synthesis of the many streams that need to flow together in order to create any real understanding of the problem.
I have an unconventional relationship with addiction work. Rather than coming in via a standard scientific route, I come in via my work in Chinese medicine and that’s a very on-the-ground kind of involvement. Acupuncture in detox settings is a very raw process. Although I also maintain a private clinic, part of my work is in the acupuncture segment of a local county drug court program. There, I work essentially with a box of needles and a room full of chairs. I have worked in a number of similar settings over the years, but my current one is emblematic of my experience in each of the settings I’ve been in. For those unfamiliar with drug court programs, they are most commonly diversion programs for certain drug offenders that are deemed able to benefit from a court-supervised treatment program in lieu of incarceration. The population that I see is hardly the same one you would see at Betty Ford, but it includes everything from homeless folks in the system for slinging meth in the park to affluent soccer moms popped for playing musical doctors in their quest for the pharmaceutical opiates they haven’t been able to get off of since their back surgery. As my local area currently leads the nation in abuse of pharmaceutical opiates, not to mention being among the leaders in the anti-depressant prescription rate, clients from the second category are numerous. So, you can think of me as an old top kick sergeant, working in the trenches with the infantry. My experience with addiction is all from that view. What it’s also taught me, harking back to our health care discussion, is just how much help can be provided to people with very little equipment and almost no cost. Frankly, that’s made me a little cranky when it comes to discussing the mainstream healthcare status quo, as many of you have found out in the past. Sorry.
Although I consider myself conversant in the current literature on addiction, scientific and otherwise, my natural proclivities have always run toward working face to face with the addicts themselves rather from the perspective of research. I have the greatest respect for research, but in the world of science, I just screw up expensive equipment and drop things, so I learned long ago to leave you folks to it! I’ll read your books later and get it that way.
I have been caught by your statements recently, however, Joseph, because ALL of my clinical work, addiction related or otherwise, is touched by the addiction to stress that you mention. I believe that flows directly from the idea, central in the book, that addictive behaviors, whether substance-based or process-based are primarily responses to abusive systems in which people feel helpless to change, often without realizing the cause of their discomfort. Ellio recently described eloquently his very personal experience bumping up against one species of the critter and many of us have written about it here at one time or another. It doesn’t have to be a needle in the arm to fall into what we’re talking about. It can be a paycheck you have to sell your soul for, or a mortgage that’s bigger than you can afford for a house that’s bigger than you need, or too many toys, or a need for power or status so great that leads you to do or condone things that are destructive to yourself or others in order to get it. I think that’s a good place to begin trying to explain why people bounce from one addictive stimulus to another, for example, from alcohol addiction to Alcoholics Anonymous addiction, to name one of many possibilities.
I think one of the most important things about this discussion is that our economic lives, individually and collectively, are a primary place in which we play out a lot of these addictive responses. They are often more subtle and harder to see in the general society because they don’t involve needles in the arm or illicit transactions or corrosive chemicals that destroy your bones and make your teeth fall out. These more subtle responses are all the more pervasive because they’re not only legal, they’re often encouraged and rewarded by the structures of society.
I realize that many of these ideas may seem inflammatory to some. I have no desire to piss anyone off, but I’ve been working on the front lines for too long to have a very romantic view of the American Dream as currently constituted. I look forward to everyone else’s takes on these ideas.
Reading through these last comments, one in my role has to wonder to what degree we in the "helping" professions enable an addiction to our services in order to create our own economic stability.
ReplyDeleteI remember visiting a chiropractor once, who suggested that I set up weekly visits for the next six months. From there, he told me, we can taper them down to once a month, but you'll be best served if you continue to come at least once a month.
What was the difference, I asked myself, between good preventive care and dependency? It didn't take me too long to turn around and begin to examine how I might ever-so-subtly be creating that same dichotomy with my own clients. How willing am I too push them out of the "nest" even if for a test -- or do I enable them to stay in the comfort zone because I also clearly benefit monetarily from their dependence.
It's rather an uncomfortable question that, if we all dig deeply enough, I'm sure we'll find ourselves on one side or the other (and likely both sides) of this dynamic in multiple junctures in our life.
bko, as one who treats addicts, how does one keep the addicts from being addicted to the service one provides (as you suggested there is a tendency to move from an addiction to alcohol to an addiction to AA).
Addiction in Marketing and Sales:
ReplyDeleteI worked with Jay Levinson of the Guerrilla Marketing series in the 90's. After the Dot Com collapse, I was looking for a career where I could help small business get marketing on a "pay for performance" basis. It’s about time that small business get a break on marketing, it’s very costly but is vital that they get their name out there.
The irony with sales and marketing is that its my job to consultant with someone and move them to sign up for our services. A doctor who has 100K in student loans is motivated to push his/her services beyond the actual needs, and in sales we have quotes to reach which require us to get a result sometimes at any cost.
I am really good at what I do, I am able to use NLP and question based skills that get the sale every time. However, I was actually lucky to finally find a company and service to offer which does make a difference. So often, we try to consult to discover needs and fulfill those needs in a perfect world. But, many times, people don’t like to be sold, and a skilled sales man with quotes will just close them down whether they needed the service or not.
I am pleased that my service offers very low cost, no long-term contract, no up front cost, and they only pay if we make them money. In this reward program the merchant get essentially free marketing to a customer base of a bankcard and they just offer a cash rebate based on their needs and restrictions. The only imperfection is that sometimes in marketing accidental usage occurs and in a small percentage of cases, the merchant pays for business they would have gotten anyways. However, the cardholder got a cash rebate, which will stimulate return visits.
Often, I think that I am part of the problem helping credit card companies motivate people to spend more money. But after reading the E myth and working with Guerrilla Marketing, I have a strong desire to help the small business man/women who is the backbone for our country.
As a sales man, I am a fire starter; I create change for the good or bad. It’s my obligation to make a difference for the good and know the power of I have over other people.
Addiction comes in many forms, each a part of our own individual lives and creates the ripple of everything.
Best,
Tom Gallagher
Dot P., you’ve gone right for the lid on Pandora’s Box, haven’t you? You’ve identified a struggle I’ve had every day of my career since it started, far longer ago that I want to think about. The questions and conundrums never end, but here’s how I’ve been thinking about it as I’ve built my clinic and put my living together after abandoning the mainstream. By clear design, I don’t accept or bill insurance because I think it often fosters that addictive pattern we’ve been talking about. My relationship is a direct contract between my clients and I. That presents its own problems, but it at least reduces the number of players in the mix. My hope is that this question and our discussion will be centered enough on principles that they’ll be of use to folks in other areas than healthcare.
ReplyDeleteThe issue of prevention, for me starts with some fairly simple questions. Are we ill, or subject to developing illness, because of a treatment deficiency? Or is the maintenance of health more appropriately centered in how closely we conform our lives to the principles according to which nature designed us? Does the prevention of illness occur primarily in the clinic or in the greater life of the client? I would apply these questions equally to any kind of healthcare, mental or physical, mainstream or alternative. I think we get caught in the belief that we need drugs or supplements or treatments to stay healthy because of a fundamental misperception that we’ve all collectively bought into. We are grossly overfed but deeply undernourished. We mistake orgasmic frequency and sexual adventurism for the crucial nutrition of real intimacy. We work, or rather overwork, in commercially driven environments that functionally reduce us to the status of indentured servants, slam our stress levels past maximum and chronically prevent us from relaxing long enough to truly regenerate. We have abandoned our own responsibility for understanding our own bodies and lives to “experts” who we’ve convinced ourselves know our experience of life better than we do. It’s not hard to see why we find treatments and supplements and drugs to be helpful in, at least apparently, reducing some of the discomfort we feel. I think it’s easy to mistake the temporary effects of various pills and treatments for the natural states of function we are designed by nature to live in. Injuries and illnesses occur, and there will always be more of them than we wish. For those, thank all the powers that we have the many and varied options that are available, and we need them all. But in the realm of prevention, what we are often slow to realize is that no supplement or treatment, no matter how venerable or scientifically sound, is ever going to compensate for the long term effects of choosing to stay in lives that violate our hearts and our souls and in turn cause damage, much of it self-inflicted, to our bodies.
This may seem a strange comment coming from someone who makes his living from providing the very things he’s questioning, but it is the bind in which I have found myself in my own life, and it’s impossible for me to keep it out of my work. So, as a practitioner, I ask myself these questions with every client who wants to talk about prevention. First, does the client have a goal for the process that’s more fully articulated than “I don’t want to get sick”, and if not, are they willing to work on a more defined purpose and follow that path wherever it might lead? Second, is the work we are doing together helping them to achieve those goals as quickly and effectively as possible given present conditions? Third, am I helping them become more aware of the conditions in their own lives that are impeding the natural functions that keep them from the most complete expression of health they are capable of? Fourth, am I suggesting any remedy, or charging for any service that is unnecessary for the achievement of the goals we have mutually agreed upon or that could be accomplished as effectively with less intervention or fewer treatments?
I decided a long time ago that it was absurd to think that we are ever going to run out of sick people. There is PLENTY to do and there always will be. The real work is around building a system that actually allows us to honor each other first as vessels of the life force rather than as profit centers and gets the right help to ALL the people who need it. It’s a tricky issue, but that’s how I look at it. It’s a lot easier said than done, but I like the old Yiddish proverb: “You have to shoot for the stars if you want to land on the roof!”
Sitting in my ridiculously pricey hotel room, overlooking the Pacific Ocean, I must chuckle at the juxtaposition between your comments and my lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, I have found your ideas and the service you render to be quite noble and genuinely inspiring, bko, though it is clear you have wisely excused yourself from needing to be motivated by such praise. Unfortunately, I fear there are few like you in the world of healthcare or elsewhere for that matter. Profiteering has become the prime objective and the pre-eminent value above all else in the U.S. and we are exporting it with greater fervor than ever. Perhaps you did not receive the memo.
Nonetheless, as I am sure you are well aware, those who disagree with the fundamental value surrounding monetary gain are quickly escorted to the fringes of society. Thus, while many admire the humanistic worthiness of such notions as you have expressed, one is required to muster considerable courage to stand up against the onslaught of criticism or disregard. From your various comments, it appears you have weathered your share and have somehow managed to escape with the greatest prize of all -- peace of mind.
I inquire quite seriously, however, considering the increasingly dogged and well-funded resistance that is being mounted against your “socialistic” ideals, as they are now so labeled, how do you propose that such a philosophy as you have elucidated might be propagated? There is, after all, such a tendency for humanity to be motivated by the milking of their own greed glands.
You may be right... that much of the human race are motivated by greed... but there is a growing number of people who hunger for something more meaningful... for relationship... and community...
ReplyDeleteMoney is not the only capital... kind sir... and there is a tremendous cost to our thinking it is.
Jonnie, you go girl! Because I agree with you -- and God knows I'm a realist! But the more we simply pander to the belief that greed is just the way it is and suggest that to take another point of view casts one into a fringe element, is the kind of high and mighty proganda that hypnotized us into becoming the complacent, entitled, and disempowered brats that we as a nation have become.
ReplyDeleteTell me I'm unpatriotic for making that comment and I'm going to tell you that you are a fascist. So we can have the argument and it's pointless.
Greed, and the simply idiotic line that says to be patriotic you must shop (and that whatever you do you mustn't question authority) is dangerous.
Let's get real. The majority of the world would like to get off this frickin' merry go-round and find a better, saner ride.
So, while you might be sarcastic Thomas W., I don't buy your positioning.
Excuse me for trying to be a mind-reader, but I'm guessing that Thomas W., intentionally missed the point of bko's last post for the sake of discussion.
ReplyDeleteAnd here I go again, but as I read bko's comment, my sense was that he's not interested in propagating a position at all. It seems he's simply chosen an approach to life that works for him and which enables him to use his talents in a manner that is harmonious with what's going on in his inner life.
As soon as I become invested in propagating any philosophy, it seems that I then become part of the addiction game. At least that's my take on it.
Now that said, as part of who I am i love to share approaches to living and working that seem to be productive for a lot of people. So I do what I do because it's a natural passion for me. Every time I've ever started coming from the point of view that people "need" to adopt my approach, it goes wrong on so many levels.
Does that make sense to anyone? Anybody had similar experiences? or experiences to the contrary?
Christopher
You know... this conversation is easy to understand ... when we look at it from another perspective...
ReplyDeleteLove doesn't coerce... and it doesn't market or sell itself... or try to convince... as the passage goes... "It seeks not its own." Love simply IS and does what it does because that is the truth of who or what IT IS.
Coming from a place of Love requires great trust from us... a trust we find difficult to give... because we have been so unwilling to extend the unconditional nature of love to others or ourselves...
Love requires faith from us... and a willingness to surrender our own puny will to a Greater Way... one which, in the end, leads to deeper understanding, richer relationships and peace of mind.
And to the degree we have peace of mind... my own sense is that it is likely because... in some way... to some degree... we have surrendered to that greater power (call it what we will... Life Force, Love, God, the Universe). We've stopped fighting the Truth... and are now nurtured by It.
May We All Have Such Peace,
Skye
Well, I certainly seemed to have unintentionally tapped a passionate vein in our collective system. I am responding briefly to the recent flurry of commentary. Anonymous and I have been kicking the more substantive questions of your post around everyday, Thomas W., and will put a response up soon once we cook it down a bit further. I personally found your post exhilarating and delightful, and am moved to thank you for how graciously you refrained from damning me for an unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky confounded lefty, which I suspect was your first impulse. :):):)
ReplyDeleteWith JJ and Tarah and Skye, I think I can say that there really might be a lot more of us out there than you might generally be exposed to, given the kinds of circles you describe yourself operating in. You are also correct, and it's something I always value in your comments, in pointing out that there are a lot of people playing out the "miserable bastard" archetype, and that they are deeply resistant to the ideas we're speaking about.
But on a very personal note, my movement into the place I described in the last post has happened not because of any courage or nobility which you kindly but inaccurately ascribe to me. I have ended up where I am because what I discovered after experiencing "success", according to the mainstream definition, was that I simply could no longer live without my Heart. It begins and ends there, and so it really has nothing to do with what anyone else does or doesn't value about what I'm doing. I am happy on the margins, and I will gladly stay there for my remaining years, or happily share my experience with anyone anywhere who is asking the same questions. That's really all I have. I'm nowhere near having it down, and every day is a different lesson. There's no manual for this.
Skye nailed it. It may fly in the face of every bit of conditioning we've been immersed in, but Love really does offer a pathway. It's a steep one sometimes, and it often looks like lunacy to those still mired in the old regime, but it's the only one I've been able to find any kind of home in.
More on your specific questions after I thinks a bit more.
Best to all.
Who knew that when I asked a simple question, it would have generated a chain of comments such as we have just witnessed. Curious indeed. In all my years of practice, I never ceased to be amazed with the complexities of our nature.
ReplyDeletebko, I appreciate your forthrightness in describing the seeming paradox that we all experience, but which I believe becomes more of an apparent ethical dilemma for those of us who are in the helping professions. As I took time to ruminate on this topic and discuss it with my colleagues and friends, many expressed the same realization: The reason that we are so addicted to the variety of fixations that we seek to fill our bottomless cups, is because we do not know who we are and are thus, in varying degrees, desperately craving to know the answer to this perhaps unanswerable question.
One who truly knows of their innate value would seem far less likely to have the need or inclination to fill a hole that is not there. If my worth, on the other hand, is relative and based on any factor whatsoever, then my value is always subject to outside forces which may influence that sense of value.
It seems that the quest, if you will, of many of us in mental healthcare is to lead others to know what we ourselves are often still seeking to affirm -- and that is that we are of unconditional value, and are whole and complete. Until we know this “truth” about ourselves with some measure of lasting assurance, I believe we will always be subject to using our clients as a means of satisfying our need for value and esteem.
Dot P.
Well, my friends, I am fascinated by our almost fragile attempts to acknowledge the fact that the vast majority of us are addicts of some form or fashion. Craving, perhaps we are realizing, is almost part and parcel of being alive (if not the ultimate evidence thereof).
ReplyDeleteThough I've safely observed this most recent conversation without direct participation, Skye's comment has drawn me out, as she referenced a biblical passage of prime importance to our understanding this subject.
I am calling upon your patience as I fall back upon my earlier training, which seems to be becoming far more relevant to my life now than then, when I was young and knew far more than I appear to know now.
When the passage she quoted reads, “Love seeketh not her own,” (or as it is sadly rendered in the King James Version used by so many in America, "Charity seeketh not her own”), we miss much of the intended power of this phrase and those that adjoin it in that particular epistle. The actual Greek word used in the passage was "agape," which as many of you readily know refers to a "higher" form of love.
For those who read this passage in the time it was written, they understood these deeper implications. As you perhaps remember, in Greek there are three forms of love: "eros" which is erotic love (one might say this form is rather addictive); "philos" (the love for one's friends and family -- or as it is more literally translated, "brotherly love", which while expanding beyond pure physical craving still focuses on one’s own people or clan and the “loyalty” so implied); and then there is "agape" (an unconditional and selfless form of love which leads people act in a “transcended” manner, meaning that we transcend our own self-interest).
Based on earlier conversations we have shared in this community, I would extrapolate that it is this “higher” love that is generated by the heart (where as the other forms of love may align with other regions of the body, if you understand what I am saying). It is this selfless form of love which rises above ego and calls for one to surrender their will to that of the “Greater Way,” as Skye refers to “IT.”
I'm not sure whether these distinctions add anything of value to the conversation for others, but reflecting upon them, provided me with additional insight into our "nature" and to a possible means of experiencing the assurance of wholeness to which Dot P. longingly alluded. Since we appear to be endless craving, one could say that we might be wise to fill our longing with unconditional love, which may ultimately be the only thing that will quench such a thirst or arrest our longing. Could it be that this sublime quality is the very essence of our Life Force? If so, this engenders much hope.
Respectfully,
Silvio
"The truth believed is a lie"
ReplyDelete"if you experience it, its the truth, the same thing believe is a lie, in life understanding is the booby prize...
-Werner Erhard
I believed that my role in the health care profession was to prevent others in their moments of weakness to not harm themselves or assist people in healing themselves.
People will heal themselves naturally if they have faith, but because of fear and misunderstanding; people lost their faith that sustained them through their lives until their breakdown.
We are naturally whole and enlightened from birth, fear enters our life, and we question that truth, we begin our journey into the world of assumptions.
There are real illnesses and mental chemical imbalances that are beyond our own ability to help ourselves in the short run, thats where we call on the help of health care professionals.
The health care profession because of the occasional suicide and death as gone too far, what was once the hope of really helping people has become perverted because of the insurance and lawsuit oversights. We are the most litigated society on earth, having so many laws that we may never begin to follow all the rules to make everything right.
I guess what I am trying to say is we are all crazy and sick with addiction, its part of being human. My gift to others in assisting them was not to be a guru or profess to be more mentally or physically healthy, rather to let them realize the condition of being human. So they may remove their fears and assumptions, allowing them to relax which is the best state for healing both mental and physical.
The sad thing is that we gave out antibiotics and antidepressants like candy so that no one may suffer or die, over prescribing which as had some bad effects. Not to mention the amount of drugs that we are drinking in trace amounts in our water system which may have long term genetic consequences in the future.
History tell us that our greatest inventors and most accomplished human beings may have had mental disorders, and these days we shut that down with some Lithium and Depako...or Prozak.
I wonder what great Einstein we have shut down in our schools with these drugs our of fear that little Johnny cant focus on his homework.
Still, the hope lies in beginning the conversation, those that choose to live outside of the box, and slowly that we all begin to see the wisdom of their example of balance, creating the ripple that transforms the world.
With high hope,
Tom
Sunday greetings to all!
ReplyDeleteI think that Thomas Gallagher makes a valid point. Too often we become so dependent upon the pharmaceutical "solution" (which can be indeed a godsend when utilized appropriately) that we fail to seek and understand the deeper underlying cause behind such conditions as one's depression.
Part of the raison d'être of transpersonal psychology is to work at the intersection of spirit and body, where spirit essence becomes soul as it imbeds itself into biological form. By assisting a person to heal the tears in their own soul and to gradually re-discover their innate wholeness, we do the work we are, in most cases, called to do.
And yes, Silvio, your comment strikes at the very core of our discussion. The Life Force or essence is, I believe, the energetic manifestation of Higher Love -- pure and simple and effortlessly wise.
Dot P.
I've been doing some interesting reading lately -- "The Paradigm Conspiracy" and "The Heart Math Solution."
ReplyDeleteBoth books got me thinking, in regard to Silvio's comment. Maybe an even deeper solution might come if we allow our agape love center to guide the manifestation of philos and eros (rather than abandoning these aspects of love in search of a Higher Love that unnecessarily excludes the other two human and beautiful dimensions of ourselves).
I sat with this throughout yesterday and this morning and it feels right with me at the moment, but I would be open to others' thoughts, questions, own experience or doubts about this "a-ha."
Christopher
(Writing w/Anonymous)
ReplyDeleteAlthough our recent discussion has been interesting on a philosophical level, I keep being pulled back to the question around what we’re DOING about it. I don’t mean let’s create a group (yikes!), but rather, how do our collective and individual understandings change how we do things in our lives?
Thomas W., in your last post, you wrote:
"I inquire quite seriously, however, considering the increasingly dogged and well-funded resistance that is being mounted against your “socialistic” ideals, as they are now so labeled, how do you propose that such a philosophy as you have elucidated might be propagated?”
Right from the beginning, labeling and propagating might be part of the problem when attempting to embrace any philosophy. From a social theory standpoint, “normalizing” any notion of social compliance – whether behavioral or ideological – becomes the problem itself. For example, the scientific edifice, with its testing and research, has made the human experience subject to rules of “normalcy” which then are mediated by science itself. Regardless of the many real benefits generated by scientific effort, the knowledge gained, rather than becoming a source of individual and collective empowerment, ultimately devolves to become a tool used by those in power for establishing authority, and in turn for imposing social obedience and control. It doesn’t really matter whether we’re talking conservatism or socialism or communism or any other “ism”. Nothing becomes “dangerous” until it’s labeled as such. In such an environment, “freedom” ends up becoming an illusion due to the power that social control mechanisms have to label and in turn to propagate their own agendas. As long as the values we espouse are generated by external authority structures – religious, governmental or simply societal – and most importantly, as long as we blindly accept them, concepts such as “freedom” and "democracy" cease to have any meaning outside those assigned to them by whatever regime is currently in power.
This might be a place where we can circle back to the ideas that Dot P. and Silvio and Chris have been kicking around that equate the Christian concept of “agape” with the life force. Just for the record, “agape” as an idea is hardly unique to Christianity. Every tradition has some version of it, including the equation to the basic generative energy of the universe, and although it’s labeled many different ways, it generally shows up as the force by which all truth and light is propagated (sorry, couldn’t resist). It might be useful here to use Chris’ suggestion that “agape” might be, rather than merely a “higher” form of eros and philia, the original source from which all forms of love arise. In fact, in answering your question, Thomas W., I would propose an expansion of Chris’ idea to include “agape” or the life force, whatever we agree to call it, as the source of everything. If we accept that, then it follows for me that since that life force, that “agape”, resides in each one of us, this notion possibly offers an avenue for exploring how the ideas I discussed in my earlier post, and others along similar lines, might be effectively propagated, even in the face of “increasingly dogged and well-funded resistance”.
In terms of how information propagates through systems, I am solidly in the holographic school of thought. Put simply, its root idea can be described in one simple phrase. “Anything that happens anywhere, happens everywhere.” The Hundredth Monkey concept, although it’s been misappropriated many times by those with less-than credible agendas, still remains an interesting example of the holographic idea. It was observed then and has been observed many times since in all sorts of different contexts that once a group of trail-breakers in a population learn a skill or make an adaptation, others in those or related populations learn the same thing much faster and more easily, until at a certain point, it simply becomes encoded in the collective understanding. One oft-cited human example is the 4-minute mile. In track and field, it was the holy grail for decades. Now, a very few decades later, it’s a commonplace occurrence. It’s this idea that has led me to repeatedly stress that if we aren’t looking to the stuff of our own lives as the first place change has to occur, then we won’t, as Thomas W. has stressed to us over and over again, have a chance of overcoming the deeply entrenched resistance that the “miserable bastards” have mounted. If we break trail in our own lives by actually doing stuff differently, we make it easier for everyone else to do the same thing after us. That, for me is the difference between change measured statistically and change measured holographically. Therefore, what I would love to see more of from those assembled here is some discussion about what you are concretely doing to contend with these issues in your own lives, and how you are going about it. How are you taking these philosophical and theoretical ideas we’re talking so much about and pulling them from the abstract world into the manifest one? What obstacles have you found your way over? And which ones are you still banging your head against and stubbing your toes on?
Yes, Christopher, I agree with your sentiments. Also, as bko and Anonyomous have written, seeing agape' as a guiding light, so to speak to help one more appropriately apply eros and philia is a much more holistic approach(and thank you for catching my typographical error, which was beginning to spread like a virus).
ReplyDeleteI will definitely give these comments more thought.
With appreciation,
Silvio
Good morning, my colleagues. I am filled with great curiosity and thus am duly motivated to pose a set of honest questions to the dynamic pair, bko and Anonymous. These questions will require, if our duo is so willing, a set of honest answers (others may, of course, join in should they so desire):
ReplyDelete1. Do you feel any air of self-satisfaction or moral superiority based upon your having discovered and apparently applied so very well your "enlightened" approach to life? (Please do not attempt to avoid answering the heart of the question by claiming to be mere initiates on your journey.)
2. Is it possible that your philosophy (or is it a non-philosophy), which I have dubbed, "absolute relativism" is just another "ism" masquerading as a “non-ism?”
(I refer to this absolute relativism as a "morally superior" yet contradictory adoption of an attitude that asserts all "isms" and the dissemination thereof are forms of entrapment or social manipulation, whilst creating a unique exception for one's own very "special" non-ism which, while touted as being abstinent from the evils of normalization, merely creates a new norm (or “non-norm”) by demonizing all existing processes for, or modes of social normalcy.)
3. Are you aware (and I cannot imagine that you are not) that whether one calls it "Higher Love" or "Life Force,” the moment one speaks of the Hundredth Monkey Theory or other such “mythical” or other non-traditional forms of mass communication, one indeed reveals one’s own desire to propagate their ideals and thus create a new standard (for whether propaganda is overt, covert, organic, grassroots, or communicated via thought waves, the Internet or the five o' clock news, it is still propaganda).
I am intensely interested in your responses as it will be a revelatory gauge that will allow us to explore the level of self-honesty with which we are truly desirous to have such a discussion.
With keen interest,
Thomas W.
Is the dynamic duo, as Thomas W. has named them, implying that we're not doing anything about what we're talking about here? Because I could make up a story that you're being high and mighty about it. But then that would be making up a story.
ReplyDeleteSo hell yeah. Ever since I first set foot in this place and started to really listen and absorb what you all have been talking about I started to make some major changes in terms of how I treat other people and myself.
Over the last month or so, as I've really taken to heart the down and dirty of this conversation, I've also started to examine the many ways that I use subtle manipulation and control techniques to get my way (I can see how I'm trying to keep myself safe at all costs sometimes and it's kind of unflattering to see myself in that light).
I'm really working to examine a lot of these parts of my life. But I have a question for the two of you. Are you suggesting that there's some specific way we're supposed to be DOING something? Or are you really just trying to invite us to explore what we are doing?
Curious, but committed to change,
Tarah
Tarah,
ReplyDeleteI have also applied many things I have learned here in my own life, and feel this group as been positive in inspiring us to make a difference in the world or at the least in our own world.
I dont think Thomas W is coming from the perspective of how are you/we applying making a difference in the world. That was a comment from others in our group that were attempting to discuss how individuals can make a difference in the world. I think, Thomas W is asking a question to get to some point about human behavior and the human condition... Im guessing here...
How interesting that a few direct questions can apparently be so difficult to answer.
ReplyDeleteI am simply interested in knowing if we, as individuals, are aware of our own egoistic tendencies or if we somehow place ourselves above the madding crowd.
My query was quite concise. Since bko and his accomplice appear to be otherwise occupied, however, I would be equally interested to hear others’ comments regarding my questions.
Please do not mistake my meaning or tone. I am the first to acknowledge my own very strong preference for my carefully crafted worldview and feel the world would indeed be a better place were I suddenly given absolute rule over the planet.
It is my experience, however, that the more liberally minded of my colleagues generally claim to be vastly open minded and yet are every bit as closed minded in regard to their open-minded preferences as any other. I am merely interested in knowing where the temperature in this room registers.
Fact is, while I would like to pretend that I am put off by this Greek babel about love, life force, and other such transcendent lingo, I am quite intrigued. Certain levels of conversation, however, are quite honestly not worth pursuing if our own level of self-satisfaction is hiding beneath a veneer unconscious, yet righteous smugness (Certainly, as you've most certainly discerned by now, I have no objection whatsoever to consciously expressed smugness).
Answers, anyone?
Thomas W,
ReplyDeleteSo by saying that the world would be a better place if you were the abosulute ruler of it, does that mean you think a one world government under your rule would be the best solution for humanity and life on this planet?
But really, I would love to hear more about your world views as your conservative comments have swayed me from my liberal standing on many posts.
P.S. Sorry to chris and others for using the sterotypes of conservative and liberal...but they just fit in this post...
Best,
Tom Gallagher
Thomas W., I can't speak for anyone else, but based on my conversations with this group for nearly a year now, I think it's safe to say that we all realize that while we strive to be open minded, we have our preferences. I'd be surprised if anyone were to claim to be without an opinion.
ReplyDeleteFor me, do I get righteous about my point of view? Yes. Do I try to hide it? If it provides me a strategic advantage -- yes.
Do I feel self-satisfied? Not nearly as often as I would like to. I've got too many people around me who bring me up short and remind me that I'm far less brilliant than I sometimes think I am (that said, I secretly harbor the notion that I'm pretty damned smart a lot of the time).
As for propagation -- since I believe thoughts and feelings are broadcast, just like radio and TV waves, yes -- we're always propagating our thoughts, points of view and feelings.
Can't say I want absolute rule over the planet, because I think there are people far more capable then myself (but I catch your drift).
That's my first take on your questions. Hope that gives you something to mull over.
Like Silvio, I've been on the sidelines observing this conversation evolve. I haven't been quite sure where or how to jump in. But now, with Thomas W., positioning himself like the Bush Administration before Iraq, I'm wondering what is really going on in that head (and maybe even more importantly, in that heart) of yours.
ReplyDeleteThis group has seemed to have granted you a measure of grace that is unlike any I've seen granted to one who started out as hostile stranger. I've read and re-read the comments of bko and Anonymous and for the life of me cannot understand what set you off.
Are you perhaps merely upset that they seem to be at peace with their path? Or that they are as quietly confident in their philosophy as you are boisterous? For me, I'm very keen to answer the question they posed; which has been posed throughout this blog numerous times before -- in fact it seems to be at the very heart of this community discussion -- what are we DOING to apply our philosophies? What are we challenged by?
These questions, as I read them at least, are not meant to be "high and mighty" as Tarah was tempted to interpret, but to be self-reflective for our lovely duo and for each of us.
I've genuinely treasured people's open-hearted remarks and have been moved by each person's musings, ponderings, confessionals, and struggles.
What am I doing? I've thoroughly re-examined my relationships at home, with friends, and my relationship with work. I am asking myself about my primary addiction -- the need to be of "value" and to "contribute." As I really look deeply, I have allowed that underlying drive (fear) to govern most of the major decisions in my life.
This is where my exploration has led me thus far and though challenged by what I've unveiled, I'm going to continue, because I have to believe that we have the ability to serve out of a place of selflessness, as opposed to a place of neediness.
No one who knows me would describe me as needy -- in fact, just the opposite -- extremely capable. But that's just the problem, I can't not be capable.
Enough about me, for now. What can't you not be, Thomas W.? How about the rest of our community?
With humble conviction,
Anna
(w/Anonymous)
ReplyDeleteIt certainly is interesting how communication works, or doesn’t, as the case may be. Thanks for the support, Anna, and thanks for answering the questions. For the record, Thomas W., our answers to your questions of earlier today are No, Yes, and Yes. And we think you know that already. :):):)
We were not trying to invert the problem and create some righteous side-set of scientific ideas
or promote pious notions that the world is wonderful here on the “enlightened” side of the
fence (Although the thought is certainly funny! Can anyone tell us what "enlightened" is so we can go there, too?). We were attempting to open up some space to talk about how we can all, together, explore the diversity of our understandings, opinions and theories and facilitate a dialogue about how we can utilize ALL of the above for the individual as well as the common good with as little incidental cost - economically, societally and emotionally – as necessary. For those of you who found that approach confronting, it might be interesting to consider the possibility that we asked the questions about what everyone is doing with these ideas because we’re on a very steep learning curve ourselves and are eager to learn from everyone’s experience. Fake humility is completely unnecessary here. We’ve found plenty in our own processes to keep the humility very, very real.
Best to all.
Splendid answer! Even better than I had imagined. Bravo!
ReplyDeleteYou have unwittingly played into a wager between a doubting Thomas in my club who, upon hearing of my enthusiasm for this group, tempted me to engage in a contest. If I were to show up in this "forward-thinking community" again, as the pompous ass they all know me to be, would my new-found colleagues of the blog treat me with respect and endeavor to continue the conversation in spite of my rudeness; or would they politely tell let me know that I am no longer welcome. I bet on the former, he bet on the latter.
Anna, the next time you encounter poor Milton, ask him about his prized season tickets to the "Pops." Guests from Children's Hospital will now be occupying his seats each week for the rest of season until Fall.
My apologies to all for being so bold as to wager on your kindness, but a sour old man has learned that some in this world are not as dour as he; and children with little to hope for will now have the opportunity to delight in music fit for kings.
Please, let my detour no longer distract from the heart of our conversation. Strange as it may seem, this encounter with my long time critic, is one of the pursuits I am endeavoring to accomplish that might invite a deeper level of thought amongst the more conservative of my colleagues.
A gracious thank you to each of you,
Thomas W.
Thomas W., my apologies for the trouble you had getting your post up this morning. The system gets a little cranky at times.
ReplyDeleteI believe I have it correctly as you originally posted it. If not, please email me again and I will correct it, with the proper credits this time.
Thanks,
Christopher
Thomas W., I just spoke to Milton. He says he has no intention of turning his seats over to a group of "poor cripples who wouldn't appreciate what they'd been given."
ReplyDeleteI stand by my earlier comment. You do not grasp the level of respect which you have received from our community. Were this not true, you would not have felt it your privilege to wager on our kindness as if we were yours to trifle with as you pleased.
I applaud you for seeking to engage a deeper discussion with your club members. Maybe your next topic could be, "Why do we consider ourselves to be so superior to everyone else as to wager on their response to our rudeness.?"
Anna
Milton merely said that to you, dear Anna, because he knew he would get a rise out of you. Nevertheless, your point is well taken. You asked earlier, "What can't I not do?" (This is a lovely use of the double negative, might I add). It would appear that “I can't not be” an erudite snob.
ReplyDeleteBko and Anonymous spoke of humility and I somewhat recoiled at the notion of adopting any form of humility -- false or genuine -- for the very expression of that "virtue" has always be repugnant to me; forever feigned as a strategic show of weakness.
The honest fact is, my friends, I suppose I have never learned to appreciate the "value" that some insist is coupled with what must be a rare quality indeed -- genuine humility. Perhaps someone might enlighten me as to how that value has ultimately benefited you and others. Is it possible that I could come to appreciate that which I have loathed since childhood?
Thomas W.
Mustering as much false humility as a subject of the Queen is able, I am compelled to remind you, Thomas W., that it was the Crown's absolute lack of humility which in a period of scarcely 50 years resulted in the vast majority of Her Majesty's Commonwealth evaporating into what many consider to be rightful hands.
ReplyDeleteIt is this same antithetical quality named hubris which has the United States so gingerly poised upon a precipice of its very own. The fact that most Americans do not recognize this reality and further refuse to acknowledge that their over-zealous confidence is becoming more than tawdry in the eyes of the rest of the world, is further evidence of what the lack of humility bestows upon its deserving followers.
Humility, simply stated is no more nor less than the willingness to see others as one's equal; and to possess sufficient wisdom to glean the unique understanding and insight that each person brings, regardless of how inane, bovine, or otherwise dull they may seem to the un-humbled eye.
Nigel
The quality, sincerity and self reflection in the recent dialogues I found to be inspiring. Realizing others are actively asking and pursuing ways to raise consciousness within and around them has given me the courage to continue developing and listening to the authentic expression within myself. I use the words authentic expression purposefully because my experience during my formal education informed me that thinking was prized above all; feeling I was taught was a weaker position. At this point in my life I am rediscovering, appreciating and valuing my commonsense; all my senses working in common which provide me with a better rounded perspective. I find myself somewhat handicapped if I just check in with my head instead of consulting with all of me; gut, heart, and mind. The utilization of all my senses helps me respond authentically to any given situation. I was reminded of the importance of commonsense one day when my counselor asked me to repeat what I had just said by connecting it with my heart and saying it again. The words were the same yet the tone was different and what was so inherently expressed within the intonation was an invitation to participate and relate with the other person; so different from the posturing of my competitive ego.
ReplyDeleteSometime back Thomas W. you mentioned observing intelligent young minds position themselves so competitively such that no outcome or resolution resulted.
“I've been attending a rather frightening series of meetings, my friends, in which rooms full of otherwise very bright people became so lathered up about being the "answer" to the world's problems that no one ever so remotely bothered to explore the reality of the problems or their various sources. Most disheartening, I must say. In times past these gatherings would have generated a depth of brain power that would leave one inspired. I fear we have become drunk with the wine of our own egoistic pride.” Feb 12th, 2008
It was not until I decided to go to Transpersonal counseling a few years ago that I even realized how competitive I was. It is not that competition is inherently bad or wrong in itself, it’s just after having a more conscious relationship to my competitive nature did I start to notice and comprehend the outcomes of this behavior. What I noticed and continually notice is when I step into my ego, all relating stops. I observe a deeper entrenchment within my own views in addition to behavior exhibiting projection, self inflation, separateness, elitism, defensiveness, justification etc. (not unlike the outcome you witnessed in the meetings you attended Thomas W. and not unlike moments exhibited within our own blog). Now if these are the outcomes I am looking for then I am willing to implore the competitive nature of the Survival Brain. Now that I have spent some time observing my competitive nature and its outcomes I am reconsidering the frequency in which I use it. I am asking myself to explore other ways to communicate that convey regard, a sense of offering perspective which may include adopting an attitude and willingness to gain another’s perspective as well; one might consider that genuine humility.
Just recently there was a discussion around “isms” and “non isms” and enlightened behavior etc. What I am discovering about the ego is how it loves to claim ownership, requires enforcement (should and musts) and justifications when all there is, is the truth and the truth needs no defense. When I truly get that all I have and all that any of us have is the truth of our experience, then I step out of survival behavior and into a related process with others and the world.
Sincerely,
MAK (Michael)
MAK:
ReplyDelete"I truly get that all I have and all that any of us have is the truth of our experience, then I step out of survival behavior and into a related process with others and the world. "
This is the greatest insight in life, thank you for sharing it. Even with this understanding, we still fall back into the matrix; our assumptions continue to take control. We are bio monkey redundant robots that have to make meaning. That is what memory and thought is, its the half truth that we must run our lives by, although most of our assumption have very little to do with our present possible future. Still knowing this helps me to let my past go as often as possible, and limit my assumptions in the present moment.
I go to meditate now to let go of the suffering of life.
My father at the age of 68, after an amazing life, took his life. I know that his bi-polar condition ran his life to extremes; at age 65 he got a diagnosis and was attempting medication, but the drinking mixes bad with these medications. The depressions lows probably were too much for him. At last his suffering has come to an end, he is at peace, and with any hope, if the spirit goes on after death, he is in a better place. He will live on through his children, as we experience the truth of joy and suffering in each precious moment that life gives us.
Forgive all those you know, love all those you meet, and make a difference in life while your here, each moment is worth everything.
Amote,
Thomas Gallagher
Sure is quiet around here... seems like whenever we get down to telling the truth about what's going on in our own lives... everybody clams up!
ReplyDeleteWell... here's a small revelation... after examining my heart... and really considering everything we've all been yacking about in here for the last year... I've made a fairly big decision... I am quitting my job today.
There are just too many conflicts between my heart and soul... and what I have to do and deal with every frickin' day. I'm not sure what I'm going to do next... but I'm going to take some time to do some real soul searching... and see where that leads me.
This group has been like a good conscience for me... and I certainly intend to keep hanging with y'all... because this is one place I can always find a sane voice that helps me stay on my true path.
Love you guys!
JJ
Well my dear friend, the word is out on the gossip line. Apparently your resignation was something of a spectacle. You chose not to go quietly and this is precisely what needs to happen more.
ReplyDeleteI do not know if I have your courage, but your choice has forced me to confront my own issues of conscience even more. Is it truly my personal economy that rules my life. When I am in conflict in the deepest part of my soul, do I really choose to stay because of money? I equate this with security for me and my family and yet, this is perhaps foolishness.
Yes, we will still stay in contact. Of course! And please continue to be who you are and say your truth.
With much respect,
Ellio
JJ, I'm proud of you and I respect the fact that you want to take the time to sort through your priorities before taking a next step. I would encourage you to take the time to truly do so. You know you are welcome in our camp anytime, but one never knows -- life could end up calling you in an entirely different direction.
ReplyDeleteYou made the statement that when we are asked in this community to reveal what is going on in our own lives, we all "clam up." It certainly seems to be the case, doesn't it? One has to wonder why.
Are we simply so confronted with our own internal conflicts that writing about them makes the discomfort too great? Are we somehow challenged by such self-honesty? Thomas Gallagher has been searingly honest in the most open-hearted way as he has shared the bare details of his life, his near-divorce, the death of his father. Such openness and candor has made some of us wince and even become non-responsive. Why?
At the very least I want to acknowledge the human suffering, as Thomas has stated -- to be a witness to JJ's courageous decision and to Thomas' poignant reflection on his own life and of our collective lives on this planet; to his invitation for us to forgive.
One thing I would like to suggest is that while, as he stated, we may be "bio monkey redundant robots that have to make meaning," there is also much more to the equation of our humanity. Mr Erhardt, whom apparently influenced Thomas and so many others, was an ardent agnostic whose unwillingness to acknowledge any type of spirituality ended up leaving him behind in the wake of awakening that touched so many others over the last two decades.
Amongst scientists, one might imagine how utterly silly it might seem to suggest that there is more to our lives than bio-chemistry at play -- that humanity is more than the carbon-based bodies that encase your personalities -- and that our consciousness is more than a bi-product of our brain chemistry. But our unwillingness, as a whole, to acknowledge that, as others in this community have argued, a life force exists and in some way animates us -- or perhaps is us -- is really at the core of the greatest blunders in the history of civilization. By so-doing we have allowed for a stripping away of all sanctity of life. All that remains is a social morality that is merely a convenient construct needed to "get along."
These are the "issues of conscience," as Ellio calls them, that trouble me -- that cause me to wrestle with my own ethics and to dig deeper for answers that are very possibly unanswerable from the standpoint of the "rational" mind. Nevertheless, I am grateful for our conversation here and the chance it provides for us to stop and question our path -- to challenge our own self-created status quo. Thank you to each of you for contributing to my soul-searching process. I am most grateful.
Sincerely,
Anna
JJ, you know I'm a tough girl. God knows I've spent my life surviving that way. But when I heard you had resigned, I cried. Tears of happiness that you finally did what you knew you had to do for so long now. Tears of conviction, because I know I'm not at a place in my life or my heart where I could make that decision, even if life was tearing me apart.
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad you're sticking with us in this funky-assed blog family -- cause now that I'm on the other side of the country, this may be the best chance I have to interact with the real you.
God bless you, sister. You inspire me.
Tarah
Oh Anna,
ReplyDeleteYou beautiful wordsmith, thank you for your wise and kind words.
To my passionate genius family:
My dad taught me that I should just be open and free, and love unconditionally, because it turns out that the greatest risk of all in life is not to risk.
I am open to a fault, and suffer much pain, but I am so quick to heal and rebound, emptying my plate of the past, and begininig new possibility because of my way of being.
The metaphor goes, I keep trying to empty my cup, but it fills up again with new and amazing stuff as fast as I empty it. The life force will not allow any space to be empty. So then I tried to disappear the cup, yet it still fills the space with new stuff. Because there is no cup or spoon to disappear or bend...
Good luck to you JJ, may life find your new path.
And yes Anna, I believe there is a spirit aside from chemicals and ego that exists in our body/minds being very silent, for any eternal energy that has been in the presence of god, would know that there is nothing to say that would calm the confusion of the ego's lessons of maturity and time.
I miss you Abba, I hope you rest in peace and that your soul watches over us, you were my best friend, and you dragged me all over the world, and taught me to make a difference in life. I hope you're having tea with God and granny right now. Bill Gallagher 1940-2008
Thank you Genius family for your listening
Love
Tom
I have not had occasion to meet the now famous -- or perhaps infamous -- JJ, but one might certainly conjecture that she delayed her own departure for reasons that were, in the end, superfluous. How like her we all are at times. How we love our drama.
ReplyDeleteMy reason for re-visiting this quaintly eclectic gathering, however, is to respond to MAK, who cunningly focused upon the one occasion in all of my verbiage in this forum in which I allowed myself to be momentarily vulnerable. What I find to be vastly more interesting, if not chilling, about his comments, nonetheless, is the suggestion that for all of our pontificating, posturing, policy making, and politics, it is quite possibly our most ancient, pre-historic brain that is actually running the show.
If one follows his logic, it would be as if a band of maniacal cave men had somehow been equipped with monstrously brilliant computers and allowed to override these god-like machines with the limited intelligence of apes gone mad. While one might suggest that such nonsense is the stuff of science fiction, I nevertheless wrestled with this notion throughout my sleep last night and awoke with an uneasiness that has yet to leave me.
For all of our technological advancement, we are still acting like mere pre-historic simians. Now, however, we have far more sophisticated means of killing one another and decimating our forest.
I must immediately and most certainly stop all such reflection for if I cease not, I might quite possibly develop sympathetic leanings toward the socialists of this group. God forbid that such an atrocity might occur. One could only imagine if such word were to get out. My career could be ruined. The idea itself is quite dramatic, isn't it? Perhaps I'll relish the notion a moment longer.
Nevertheless, carry on, my colleagues. I will no doubt shake off this momentary brush with insanity and return to conscientiously plundering the spoils of others' ruins as the day unfolds.
Cordially,
Thomas W.
Hey gang... thanks for being so supportive! You guys are so the bomb!
ReplyDeleteListen... I'm out of here for a while... I made a call to Nyguen... two weeks ago when I realized what I was going to do... and am flying Monday to see him and his godsend of a father... They've offered to let me hang out there for a month or so... you know... to re-discover who I am now...
I'll miss you all... but won't promise to keep in touch till I get back... but you're all in my whacky heart wherever I go.
Love you all more than you know,
JJ
Hey JJ,
ReplyDeletePut simply, YOU ROCK! A long time ago, I had a day like yours, and the memory how hard it was for me just further fuels my admiration for your move. Please give my warmest regards to Trinh and Nguyen, and I can't wait to hear what you find while you're there. Come back and teach us.
Greetings my friends.
ReplyDeleteI am finding most interesting this idea of issue of conscience. Perhaps I am not understanding of this completely but it would seem that what people are fighting is the voice of their own hearts. This is something my father spoke of much when the British ruled India. He said they no longer did know the voice of their own soul.
Now in my country this is happening with great regularity. People are falling into a cycle of greed. You call it addiction. I see them the same and work to take back our economy to a place of sanity not endless consumption.
When a person releases themselves to the voice of the heart much peace and healing can transpire. I see this to happen in the life of this person JJ.
Sunjab
Tom's Funeral Dedication for Abba
ReplyDeleteMy father, Bill Gallagher’s favorite authors (whom he would quote so often in his keynote speaking) were Henry David Thoreau, Helen Keller, George Bernard Shaw, Werner Erhard and Shakespeare.
Thoreau once described, "The mass of mankind" as leading "lives of quiet desperation." While this was true of my father’s life as well, he believed more in the words of Helen Keller who said, "Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature." and that "All the world is full of suffering. It is also full of overcoming."
In the 80's he was very inspired by a man named Werner Erhard who got many great idea's from Zen Buddhism, Werner said, "If you experience it, it’s the truth. The same thing believed is a lie. In life, understanding is the booby prize."
My father would often quote Shakespeare about the human condition written hundreds of years ago, "To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow, creeps in this petty pace from day to day. To the last syllable of recorded time, and all our yesterdays have lighted fools. The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
Of all these authors, my father most believed in and lived his life like the words of George Bernard Shaw, who said:
"This is the true joy in life, the being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one; the being a force of nature instead of a feverish, selfish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy. I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole community, and as long as I live it is my privilege to do for it whatever I can. I want to be thoroughly used up when I die, for the harder I work the more I live. I rejoice in life for its own sake. Life is no "brief candle" for me. It is a sort of splendid torch which I have got hold of for the moment, and I want to make it burn as brightly as possible before handing it on to future generations."
Forgive all those you know. Love all those you meet, and make a difference in life while you’re here. Each moment is worth everything!
The only real truth is what we experience in the present moment, and dad taught me that always showing up and loving unconditionally was what it was all about.
http://www.guerrillabusiness.com/images/GallagherVideoBrochure.mov
My sadness is over and I look forward to possibility now.
ReplyDeleteI cuddled with my beautiful 4 year old daughter last night as we watched a movie together, and I thought of the amazing adventures we will share together in our time.
http://www.monkeyview.net/id/2164/nov_2007/
We wake the next day, and she ask me, "what do you want to do today dad?"
I think to myself I want to show you the world and let you meet these amazing people in it. She smiles and says lets go to the Zoo...
So where in the world are you all, and what do you want to do or talk about today?
With much love,
Tom Gallagher
My colleagues and I read your blog for some time now and find it fascinating. Quite a mix of conversation for certain.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how many of you have lived outside the United States, but if you have you already know that the idea that has been parlayed about in a variety of your discussions -- that of healthcare being based on a non-profit structure -- is not new. In fact, the rest of the First World has adopted this philosophy for some time -- has maintained high quality service, care, and standards (most of which are all superior to the U.S.) and continues to make the modifications necessary to make there various models sustainable.
Why do you think that those of you in the U.S. have allowed yourselves to be so isolated from the rest of the world that you believe the stories your politicians tell you about "socialized" medicine and it's "evils." It is sadly comical.
I am curious how such a nation as yours can fall into such a trap. There is a lesson for all of us to learn from this.
Our warm regards to you all,
Paulo, Leonard, and Suzanne
P.S. We send condolences to Mr. Thomas Gallagher. This very hard to lose one's father. We wish you well
There are a variety of trios to whom I might compare our latest three visitors. Nevertheless I will endeavor to be kind for they, like MAK the provocateur, have caused me to question my years of previous posturing and consider that I too have perhaps allowed myself to be led astray by the very greed to which our Indian sage, Sunjab, refers.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure, however, that I would rate the mighty U.S. so poorly in terms of the quality of care it provides. Rather, I would suggest that our fault is much more severe. For while we possess the ability to render world-class care, we have become unwilling as a nation to surrender our allegiance to profit motive in turn for ensuring that all our hard working citizens are provided the basic necessities of healthcare (though we readily provide it for non-citizens and those who do not work at all).
At the bidding of Anna, I sat down and watched Frontline's seemingly bland expose of U.S. healthcare last evening (it is admittedly one of the few news programs that still possesses a shred of integrity). Being surprisingly disturbed by the program's revelations (for I was provided with no information I did not already possess), I addressed a number of my fellows this morning on the subject of healthcare and was distressed that they had no real interest in the topic nor the plight of their fellow, albeit less fortunate citizens. One of them actually described the topic as "passé."
Their response or excuse, I was reminded, falls under the oft-used category of "individual accountability" which while I support in its purest form, has become a trendy cliche' that has come to mean "why should I care about those poor bastards?" In truth, I believe it is the rationale I have used for years to quell my own sense of shame at being an instrument of the richest nation in the world whose citizens fall into bankruptcy due to their ridiculously inflated medical bills.
How is all of this possible? How did we arrive at this embarrassingly callous place? And as I asked this of myself, I had to honestly answer that we have been here for many a season. Only now it has reached even such absurd proportions that it becomes rather impossible to ignore.
And yet it does boil down to accountability, doesn't it? We -- you and I -- have stood by -- lamely, dumbly -- as our politicians have openly received bribes (or shall we say "campaign contributions") from those who fleece our nation. These payments, in reality, are not unlike loans in times gone by issued by war lords, which were made in order to remind those who did their bidding of their duty to mind interests of their patrons (in this case it is now the medical/pharmaceutical/insurance triumphant who has stepped into play one of the increasingly numerous roles war lord).
It is a sad truth that we, as a nation, are actually falling behind and are becoming less civilized, less educated, more violent, and more impoverished. My father, grandfather, and all those before them would be horrified that we who have been entrusted with the public interest have squandered our opportunity for potter's gold.
In all sincerity, I have become increasingly disheartened by the public conversation (or lack thereof) and by the gross lack of intelligence shown by our news media who have turned what was once a proud journalistic tradition into a carnival sideshow. This massive attempt to confuse, distract, and confiscate the truth would be a thing of awe were it not so drastically devastating.
What is one to do? I'm quite seriously in a time of deep reflection in this regard and am appreciative of the role this community's questionable band of characters has played in inviting me to re-examine my own role in the "conspiracy" into which we have all played.
Indeed, I believe the time for conversation has ceased, my friends. I have heard and said enough. It is time now, to make a plan and implement it -- or to sit down, sit quiet, and watch the palace crumble.
Respectuflly,
Thomas W.
Yes, yes, Mr. W. We also watch this programme. How wonderful that someone in this gathering also viewed. Seeing it is what encouraged us to write and ask our question for it was a first time we saw the truth be told about this in a fair way since we came to America.
ReplyDeleteDo not be discouraged though. This is not perhaps a good thing, but many governments have not acted in the best interest of their people. The United States is still a very great country but she has not grown up yet. She is like a teenager who does irrational things but the world is inviting her to become an adult now.
With sincerity,
Paulo, Leonard and Suzanne
I can't pretend that it was purely synchronicity that brought about a chance meeting between our Frontline viewers. I confess that I emailed a number of my colleagues, invited them to watch the program, and then encouraged them to join our conversation. Our lovely trio graciously complied and brought with them their international perspective.
ReplyDeleteThomas W., I must say I am pleased, yet surprised that the program had the impact on you that it apparently did. You seem to be genuinely at an intellectual and, if I might be presumptuous, spiritual crossroads. If I can be of help to you, you know how to reach me.
I agree mightily with Thomas W's closing sentiments and recall the title of one of our past conversations here -- "Genius Fiddling While Rome Burns," or something of the like. I chuckled when I read it then, but my chuckle now is more one of genuine discomfort. As was regularly required for my ancestors in these parts, it is indeed time for us to gather our friends and family, find much joy in one another's company, and batten down the hatches. We may be in for a long storm ahead.
Love to you all,
Anna
As we discuss the impact on our health care system, and how it has worked better in other nations. I think the storm is coming if we consider the peak oil problem.
ReplyDeleteHere is a great presentation on the subject and its impact on all of our world. I would love to present it to Thomas W and others for your consideration.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3351034996507948781&hl=en
Best,
Tom
"Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed." Movie by Ben Stein
ReplyDelete“Always be interested in the ‘why’, even when it creates two more ‘why’ questions to be interested in” my father taught me. My dad was trying to teach me that it’s the path, and not the destination that matters. He spent his life exploring the many mysteries, but never settled for one answer. He must have agreed with Einstein that imagination was more important then knowledge.
I have been reading many different blogs on this movie, the main argument against the movie’s concept of intelligent design being that money motivates what gets published in academia, not a conspiracy.
But I didn’t feel that Mr. Stein was trying to fight for the intelligent design group or the atheistic scientist, I heard the words of my dad that we should not close our minds either way.
There are no absolute answers, only questions to continue our discovery of infinite possibility, never to close our minds absolutely.
The building blocks of life could have been sent here on an asteroid by another race of beings. That race must have believed in some type of God. The need to believe in some type of God might be written in our DNA for the preservation of humanity. God doesn’t have to be a man sitting with a physical body. God could be our collective consciousness that intelligently designed the building blocks of life from another dimension so that these conscious spirits might have somewhere else to be and experience existence.
I lived in Israel for three years when I was 11 years old in 1979; I had Jewish friends and Palestine friends. They were all loving good people who had their faith and distrust. I lived in Germany when I was 22 years old in 1989; I learned German by speaking to the old people in the park about their lives, eventually I married a German National who had great hatred for the Nazi mentality and loved of the green movement. I was born into a Mormon family with a father who was a convert; in the early 70’s he would question the ideology that one religion holds the only truth, thus changing his life path and stability forever.
There seems to be a great psychological life power in faith or the concept of ignorance is bliss. These Mormons that lived their life to the standards of the church by the power of faith had good lives, if they didn’t question the tree of knowledge. The tree of knowledge is like opening Pandora’s box, allowing the infinite fractal of answers to unleash itself on our limited minds. Faith allows people to program their subconscious minds, unleashing the whole consciousness power of multi tasking. It is said that the youth in their ignorance create and destroy the world, while the elders contemplating the infinite choices, do nothing or little.
I see people in our blog community that would not discuss the many subjects we bring forward here in their own professional work, for fear of losing their jobs, some choosing secret names to keep anonymous. Others who have chosen to quit their jobs and go live the life of a monk to be with the “Why”. Although I don’t presume to know all of our lives, I have just been reading between the lines in our various posts.
My dad didn’t want to be held to the dogma of a God that would punish him in the after life, but he also didn’t want to believe in a pure Darwinist view that would give Hitler his plans for a better tomorrow by the theories of Eugenics.
I go to sit with the “why” that my father loved, allowing many answers to come into my mind, then letting them pass into nothingness as I learned in my first lesson of Zen meditation. Breathe in love 1, breathe out love 2…
May the sun shine love on your road, and rise again with love in your heart.
Amote,
Moki
Tom added an additional comment about the Ben Stein movie, but it did not publish when I pushed it through. Tom, if you'd like to re-add your comment, please do so and we'll give it a second try.
ReplyDeleteI sent off an email using Ben Stein movie by mistake without investigating what he was saying. On further investigation I learned that it wasnt the science fiction or metaphysical beliefs I hold to be true. the movie was something quite different.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expelled:_No_Intelligence_Allowed
I hope you can read the rest of my post without being distracted by the use of Ben Stein to begin my blog. My intention was very different.
Best,
Tom
Thomas,
ReplyDeleteBeing the daughter of a rabbi, I too lived amidst the endless pursuit of the question "why". Later, as a biologist and geneticist, I might conjecture that there is certainly ample anthropological evidence to support the notion that our search for God is somewhere encoded within our DNA or our epigenetic structure. Truth is, we do not know and may never know fully the answer to the questions regarding our quest for the divine.
Still, perhaps like your father, I tend to believe that the greater truth exists somewhere beyond our concepts and our beliefs. Our immediate truth, however -- that which we encounter in each and every moment -- can be rooted in love and a sense of connectedness or in fear and a belief in disconnectedness. These extremes exist on a continuum, naturally, and it is likely we all travel the expanse of that continuum at various times throughout our life. Nevertheless, it seems to me that the breath of life, is indeed the breath of love, if we allow ourselves to truly fall into a state of wonder and marvel at the grace of our existence on this living planet which travels through space under such marvelously unlikely circumstances.
In gratitude,
Anna
As happens from time-to-time, when the activity dies down on the blog; and when my schedule starts to heat up, our blog takes a holiday.
ReplyDeleteI won't be checking for comments until June 1st. So anything you add will not be added until that time. In the meantime, enjoy life and take the best of care.
Thanks!
Christopher