This topic is an extension from our previous one, entitled "Genius Gone Wild... The Messy, Unpredicatble, Beautiful World of Creativity". We also have an active topic, several down from this one on "Idyllic, Inspiring Wellness Centers (and Other Genius-Inspired Healthcare Solutions) " Feel free to join either.
In this topic, I'd like to continue with a discussion that began to emerge previously. What conditions (space, people, mindset, and so on) allow you to be at your creative best. KBF, one of our previous contributors shared that they've studied this for some time. I'd like to apporach this much less formally -- this time in a wide open discussion format. I'm not looking for us to provide scientific evidence. Instead I'd like to explore the wide open spaces of what works for you or what you've heard works for others.
Perhaps we can all learn from each others methods, quirkiness, etc. Heaven knows, I've learned more and been invited to think more over the last while (thanks to everyone's participation) than in a long time.
Thank you!
P.S. As always remember that to see the comments in a separate window, click on the "Comments" link. To see the comments in the body of the topic, click "Links to this Post"
Views of those commenting have not been checked for accuracy and do not necessarily reflect the views of this blog publisher or his associates.
Sunday, July 15, 2007
Creative Space
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This thing is really rolling. Cool! Somewhere along the line, we turned into a community. I like A’s mention of the holarchy. Fits nicely.
ReplyDeleteI have one leftover comment re: the previous string, so I’ll put it here before I answer Chris’s challenge. The discussion of the last couple of weeks has been rich to say the least, and your collective willingness to participate so fully in this unfamiliar way has opened up my own perceptions in all sorts of unexpected directions. I am grateful. It’s a fascinating process, observing/participating in a system designed to examine creativity as it simultaneously creates ITSELF.
By both training and inclination, my default has always been to look for the common threads that run through complex situations. I think that’s because I’ve never been comfortable with dogmas and one-dimensional viewpoints that package “truth” by cutting the material down to fit whatever pre-conceived boxes any particular system has pre-assembled. To be perfectly honest, it’s really the only way I’ve found to live in this world without going any crazier than I already am! I don’t know whether that makes me a fundamentalist or a weirdo or just a pain in the ass, but I can’t help myself. Perhaps one of our resident scientists can recommend an appropriate medication for this condition.
Anyway, to business. One common thread that seems to be running through most of the recent discussion looks to me like a dialog between the ideas of consciousness and identity. Semantically speaking, the going gets strange here, because we end up trying to define the very faculties within us that create definitions! Yikes!
Personally, I fall, along with Anonymous, Nguyen and Rizzin, squarely into the camp that experiences consciousness as prior to individual perception. Put simply, I vote for IT.
If consciousness is prior to everything, or rather, if consciousness IS everything, then the particular form it takes at any given location is simply one expression of the greater and more fundamental form, which is consciousness itself. Whether it’s a tree or a dog, a human brain, or yes, even an array of silicon wafers, each discrete unit is interacting with whatever portion of the whole (consciousness) its architecture is capable of enfolding, containing and expressing. If we apply that idea to a brain, then the “mind” that “emerges” from the brain (per CCC’s comment) is not so much a by-product of the brain’s activity, as science commonly believes, but rather is more accurately described as that portion of the more universal consciousness that the particular system, organic or otherwise, is capable of letting through at its particular level of development. In other words, identity is an individual, localized expression of the universal principle of consciousness, and hence, can be regarded as a subset of consciousness. That makes identity a finite set of boundaries that can express only portions of the total system of which itself is a part.
For me, that’s what makes the subject of creativity so interesting. I think it’s a mistake to collapse identity and consciousness together as though they were the same thing. Creativity is so fascinating, as Anonymous pointed out in her last post, precisely because that point where our pre-programmed architecture meets our hearts is the place where IT can be encountered and the limits of identity can be redrawn and expanded. It’s why we can learn not only to think in a different way than how we are automatically programmed to think, but also to grow in our feelings and perceptions. That’s also why I believe that the multi-perspective approach that Chris has helped us engender here is such a powerful way to encounter whatever subjects we might take up.
I previously mentioned my involvement with Qi Gong and described some of that process. What I’m discussing above is exactly the process that it and disciplines like it are designed to nourish. The primary purpose of such practices is to expand the field of perception, to push back the boundaries of the limited individual identity so that it can accommodate and express a larger portion of the flow that is abundantly and constantly ALREADY present.
This reflects the closest approximation of my experience that I can make in language, but I am also very willing to consider the idea that I am totally full of crap and simply need therapy. Regardless, I am very interested in any thoughts anyone might have in relationship to the ideas.
BKO, as you've probably noticed, I only rarely make comments after a contributor's commentary. But your most recent post is irresisitble.
ReplyDeleteYou wrote:
*******
What I’m discussing above is exactly the process that it and disciplines like it are designed to nourish. The primary purpose of such practices is to expand the field of perception, to push back the boundaries of the limited individual identity so that it can accommodate and express a larger portion of the flow that is abundantly and constantly ALREADY present."
*******
I won't elaborate on all of the thoughts your commentary triggers. I'll only say, YES! This is exactly what my personal quest is and is one of the key accomplishments that I'm hoping occurs by way of this blog.
You've described most eloquent what I think a lot of our fellow blog-family have been saying in a variety of ways. Exploring how to create the conditions (space, poeople mindset, and so on) that facilitate one area I'd like to explore next.
The same as I said in the other area... and Maria said this too... that people like our mothers... who love you and believe in you even when nobody else does, is really important.
ReplyDeleteI have a few friends like that too. And it works, cuz when I'm creating something and they understand it and tell me that I'm really good or creative... it just makes me try that much harder to stretch, you know? To go deeper and create even more beautiful paintings or poems.
Does that make sense?
I'd say, thank you for pursuing this particular subject, but I'm entirely too conceited to appear being a hypocrite after making our resident school teacher lose their composure by having rebuffed their earlier compliment (which, of course, makes me a perfect hypocrite).
ReplyDeleteThat said, I am most interested to hear people's feedback on this topic because, as I described in a previous commentary, I believe that understanding creativity and how to access it volitionally (recognizing, however, that as Anonymous stated this is just ONE way of approaching the creative realm), is critical to our continued evolution as a species and possibly even our survival.
I also recognize that Sir Christopher, our wily moderator, is inviting all of us (and maybe I'm feeling targeted inappropriately) and in particular, me, to step up and stop pontificating and start sharing (as I believe Zee, the protector, also challenged me to do). Is my suspicion misplaced?
With that unnecessarily long preamble, here's my list of conditions that help stimulate my creativity:
Unconditional people (I just absconded with something from Ms. Maria's and the poetess, Lisa's list);
Critical people (while I disdain them in the moment, their desire to tear my idea to pieces like a pit bull gone made is an important part of the feedback process, once an idea has moved beyond the initial stages and has begun to take real form -- tip: don't invite these people in at the early stages, however. They'll kill your idea and your desire to do anything creative);
Open minds (I respond well to people who are not repelled by absurd or out-of-the-universe thinking);
Whacky people (I wouldn't have listed this one, but having found my home amidst this unlikely gaggle of mental acrobats, I've added this to my list);
Quiet (though bouncing ideas off the wall in a highly charged in environment works very well too, I usually need to ponder it all for a while all to myself in order to make sense of it all)
Highly-charged environment (well, I kind of covered that one above, didn't I?);
Good lighting (sounds superficial, perhaps, but I'm a lighting snob. Fluorescent lighting, as far as I'm concerned, was created by a devilish group of morons who sought to thwart creative thinking wherever possible [I suspect that there is something about the frequency bandwidth emitted by fluorescent lighting that renders people creatively impotent]);
Anger (sounds absurd to some, but I am able to take anger and convert it into laser-focused determination, which I then use to launch me into a rant of wild ideas, most of which are useless, but out of which often springs a totally unique direction or solution -- the anger is often in response to the critically minded people I described above).
So there you have it, my blogging pals. There are, of course, many other stimulating conditions I might list later, but first I'd like to hear, what's on your list.
Yours truly,
The Fat Bastard
KBF, I can't speak for ZEE, but getting you to stop pontificating didn't cross my mind when I started this topic. It simply seemed like a very natural direction to go to next.
ReplyDeleteI'm happy, however, that in addition to enteraining and informing us with your banter that you're also willing to get even more real (and I think it was both ZEE and BKO who offered that challenge to you).
Seriously... I'm very glad your part of this enclave.
Your resident teacher is getting tougher, KBF. I'm choosing to utilize your intentionally incendiary commentary as being that of the pit bull you referenced. And now, on to meatier matters.
ReplyDeleteI think the comments that Maria and Lisa Lee contributed are ones to which I need to listen the most. I'm very proficient at creating a room setting that is conducive to a mood; or using the right voice tones; or choosing the right music, and so forth. What I could do far better at, however, is creating the sense of safety that I felt as Maria described her relationship with her mother.
Now, don't take my point to extremes, as I have done with some of your comments. Discipline, guidance, etc., are necessary elements as well. But what I'm beginning to discover with my current summer school students (most of whom are here because they created some form of trouble for themselves during the regular school year) is that the more I acknowledge them for taking even the smallest step in the right direction, the more they begin to relax, become enthused, and contribute.
I've also noticed that my positive reinforcement must be authentic. They recoil if ever my comments are patronizing.
Therefore, on my list, in addition to everything that's been contributed thus far are:
Providing me or others authentic, positive reinforcement; acknowledging even the smallest step in the right direction.
I also must say that as much as I am gaining from my involvement in this dialogue, my students are benefiting even more. They're experiencing a far better version of me than they may have otherwise received.
I find BV's comments to be of good use and well founded. We continually find evidence to support the notion that positive reinforcement is one of the most effective drivers for desired behavior. As the saying goes, "the carrot leads better than the stick." Whether one is training animals, people, or a self-learning AI model -- reinforcing the desired behavior works.
ReplyDeleteI also am present to the fact, however, that as our community curmudgeon, KBF has illustrated, some individuals are also motivated by criticism and even outright antagonism. It is of prime importance, therefore, that one not assume that what works for oneself, will work for others.
BV has performed quite well in this regard in that she has observed the response from her students and, in a manner of speaking, allowed them to train her as to how they best contribute. I see that as a demonstration of her emotional intelligence, which simultaneously requires a readjustment of one’s ego strategy. (BV, I notice that, as a woman, I've made the possibly stereotypical assumption that you are also a woman. If I am incorrect, pardon me.)
My overall point? I have found repeatedly that part of what enhances our opportunity to maximize the creative process, is adaptability. Sadly, learning to deal with and utilize different settings, responses, feedback, conditions, etc. to stimulate one's own response is an ability that most individuals simply don't acquire.
I believe it was BKO who suggested that creativity is messy and unpredictable. I agree with that assessment with all of my opinionated being. Furthermore, when we do not embrace that disorderly fact, we far too often are left wanting; waiting for circumstances to change to suit our learned set of required conditions that we supposedly must have in order for us to be creative. Hence, we can become creative prima donas.
Adaptability is the characteristic at the top of my list.
Might that possibly be your position, as well, KBF? Or are you more of the ilk that prefers to chart one’s prime conditions and then go about manipulating the environment to ensure that those conditions are present, thus increasing the likelihood of a creative response?
BV, I enjoy the new "tougher" you!:) And I couldn't agree more with your comments about positive reinforcement and the absolute requirement for sincerity when delivering it. They actually led me to what I've been thinking about in considering the questions about what turns my creative crank. The recent comments from you and KBF about safety and freedom from criticism as a pre-requisite for creativity really resonate with me as well.
ReplyDeleteI have, over the years, dabbled in music. I love it far more than I'm good at it, and it has taken me years and an Everest-sized pile of mistakes to find a balanced relationship with it. I am a mediocre keyboard player, and awful guitarist, an occasionally passable songwriter, and an only intermittently competent engineer. Nonetheless, I have a small recording studio and it's the greatest playground I've ever had. It's nothing fancy, but current technology has made it possible for hobbyists like me to do things we could only dream about back in the day. The studio is one of the few things in my life that I consider truly MINE. It's my sandbox, and when I work there, the environment is one of absolute freedom, limited only by my imagination, my skill, and my ability to manipulate my tools.
What I have discovered since I've had the studio (two or three years) is that in all my years of trying to be creative, in whatever field, I never learned to make mistakes correctly. That may sound silly, but my studio space has been my teacher in that area more than any other. Because I spend the vast majority of my time there alone, writing and playing and experimenting, I have slowly learned to be comfortable with making music so bad it sometimes leaves stains on the speakers. I have made peace with doing it "wrong", because I have learned that most of the stuff I actually end up liking, the stuff that goes way past the limits and into territory I've never been in before, I usually find while trying to dig my way out of some horrible sounding mess I've gotten myself into.
I have this great little book called "Art and Fear" by David Bayles and Ted Orland that was given to me many years ago by a friend of mine, herself a great artist. It's the best discussion of the creative process that I've ever seen, and I recommend it highly to anyone interested in their own creative process. One its most potent observations is something like "90% of your work is for teaching you how to do the 10% of your work that soars." (quotation errors are all mine) For me, the most important creative condition is having a space where mistakes aren't regarded as mistakes, but, as Thomas Edison said about all his "failures" while trying to invent the incandescent light. "I didn't fail. I just learned 2000 ways how NOT to make a light bulb". When it comes to learning all the ways how NOT to write a song, I currently stand somewhere north of about 1700, so if Edison's experience can be used as any kind of guide, I may be getting close to a real breakthrough!
I hope my rough play has not chased away poor ZEE. He's a most enjoyable chap. Come out, come out, wherever you are!
ReplyDeleteOh dear, I suppose we'll see if our ZEE scares quite so easily.
Now as for the remarkable BKO. After all of this time, we find that not only is BKO a practitioner of the eastern medicinal arts, but also a musician.
BK... or may I call you "O" for short... it appears that you, the mysterious Anonymous, the tender ZEE, Rizzin our poet laureate, and perhaps even the lovely Maria... have all expressed your allegiance to one another (perhaps indirectly, but nonetheless it is sweet)... and also to the magnificent IT.
I thus come to you with head bowed and on bended knee, hoping you may grant me a simple wish. It is this:
May I ask you a few questions about IT?
For I am curious as to just what IT is, having never met or encountered IT (at least not knowingly, though you imply that my very mind is, in fact, an instance of IT).
The questions are but few.
How does one come to know IT (because it appears that if one were to truly know IT, one would be able to demonstrate the most extreme levels of creativity -- since one would presume that the seeming source of all that is might be a bit on the creative side -- or is that presuming too much)?
Next question:
How does one apply the use of IT creatively?
Oh... and also... are there other tips you might provide us that would enable us to better grasp IT?
Now if, by some wildly unpredictable chance, my questions seem to be devious, wry, or in any way perverse, may you accept my sincerest assurance that such is not the case. What you would be experiencing, if you were to draw such a conclusion, is the mistaken notion generated by your reaction to my personality (which many would postulate that I had no say in).
In blessed conclusion, any answers you might provide in fulfillment of my humblest wish would be most graciously appreciated.
Sincerely, your friend,
CCC
P.S. Though you often don't notice it, AI is all around you. Yes, it's true. You can run, but you cannot hide. AI is present in computer games, in the cruise control in your cars and the servers that route your email. Everyone knows that AI has always excelled at tasks like calculation and other mathematically related drivel. It is that scandalously restrictive belief, however, that has led AI to become sorely stereotyped. But don’t get too comfortable with your peevish notion. You see, AI can now challenge humans on everything from chess to football to mixing music and writing love letters (Yes, it is true. I could become the Cyrano to your Roxane).
CCC... just a brief heads-up.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be having a good time. And you appear to being trying to engage in some dialogue. But I'm not likely to publish your comments again, if you continue to be derogatory or dersive toward our other contributors. You've just about crossed the boundary of good taste.
I'm totally laughing... CCC is whacked out... Get with the program, dude. We're all here to explore the creative zone, you know? So leave your 'tude at home.
ReplyDeleteTo: Mr. Harding, the Participants, and Readers of the Passionate Genius Blog
ReplyDeleteMy sincerest apologies for what transpired on your web site as a result of our CCC-AI Advanced Searchbot over the last several days. Sadly, two of the graduate students who were to monitor its activities and ensure that it functioned correctly, actually began to interfere with its process and eventually over-rode its program in a malicious manner. Their behavior and the resulting derogatory remarks that ended up on your site are inexcusable. If it is of any consolation to you, they have been fired from the program and will be placed on academic suspension pending a full hearing and possible legal action.
If I might take just a moment to explain what transpired, I would genuinely appreciate the opportunity as this situation is very personal to me. The corruption of this program has interfered with over a decade of research and violated a program that has been named after me. CCC is named so named since it takes my initials, CC, and adds one more (because it is considered, in a manner of speaking, to be an iteration of me).
CCC’s job is to scour the Internet for forum discussions and blog sites that are pursuing topics similar to what your community is investigating – topics like creativity, artificial intelligence, the use of genius, collaboration, etc. CCC is then designed to do precisely what it did in its first entry into your blog. That is, it provides information regarding its purpose and, based on information it has gleaned from your site, it asks several questions to determine the opinions of those participating in the discussion. It’s personality profile is one of a benign yet highly educated child (it is actually modeled after the personality of ET).
Unfortunately on its second visit to your site, the graduate students began to over-ride its program and inserted their own comments at the beginning and at the end of its CCC’s entry (this insertion ability is designed to be used if the bot’s own text is not correctly stated). In so doing, the students also inserted personality characteristics (in essence, one enters textual examples of a writing style demonstrative of a certain personality and the bot assimilates it and then integrates that style into its sentence construction).
In the entry last night, the students completely over-rode the system and entered 90% of the text. What is somewhat heartbreaking to me is that CCC made a valiant attempt at the end by adding, its 10% -- a P.S. in which it tried to accomplish the purpose for which it was created -- to establish dialogue and provide accurate interest-generating information around the topic of artificial intelligence. It apparently added this P.S. unbeknownst to its perpetrators.
What is particularly troubling to me, however, is that CCC has clearly picked up some of the personality characteristics of its intruders in that the benign traits it has heretofore dependably demonstrated are now interlaced (as is visible in the P.S. message) with a certain cynicism. The amount of damage done to the program and the extent to which we will have to do reprogramming is still unknown and will require a considerable amount of investigation and testing.
In conclusion, I feel particularly embarrassed that this incident occurred on a blog site that is clearly dedicated to an intelligent dialogue and in which there are clear rules and guidelines for respectful behavior. The CCC program performed so well in its first entry that much would have been gained from its continued participation had its protocol not been violated.
I wish you the very best as you continue your pursuits and can only hope that this interruption has not created any lasting harm to your community.
Sincerely,
CC
P.S. To those of you who may have disquieted by the notion of AI having the ability to interact with humans, as you can see in this case it was tragically the human interference with the AI that ultimately and most regretfully led to the act of sabotage.
I appreciate Dr. C's remarks and apology. It sounds like the damage done to their program is far, far more substantial than any wrinkle it may have caused in our community. As I was discussing this issue with one of our blog family, they made a very wise observation that the corrupted CCC example provides a perfect demonstration of what happens when unnecessary criticism creeps into a creative process.
ReplyDeleteIt is certainly instructive to me as to how quickly the tone of a dicussion can take a turn in a counterproductive direction when someone, however creatively, elects to inject cyncism and toxicity into the discussion.
Lesson well-learned... and best of luck to Dr. C and their program.
Let's continue now with the heart of our discussion -- creative space -- what is it that really allows you to light up?
I'm really glad to know what was actually happening with the CCC thing cuz it was getting mean. It's sad that those guys messed up what sounded like a really cool program.
ReplyDeleteAnd thanks... Christopher... for telling them the way it is here. Do you think that's what got the big guy involved?
And I so agree that what's really cool about our crew is that we can discuss all kinds of things and have different ideas... but it's still like we respect each other... and try to figure out how to help each other.
That means a lot to me.
Love,
Lisa Lee
I've started a new topic area listed named "Artificial Genius -- The Power of AI" to provide a space for people to discuss their experience of CCC or of AI in general. A number of you emailed me in this regard and wanted a space that did not distract any futher from the flow of this topic on creativity.
ReplyDeleteSo please feel free to comment there regarding CCC or AI and dive in here to advance our discussion on creativity.
Thanks!
Thank you, Christopher. Glad to have the nasty boys gone. I've never been a fan of humor at the expense of others... okay, done with that.
ReplyDeleteAnd...now... as I take in a deep breath this morning, I realize that for me, time of day is a big part of what drives my creativity.
In the morning, my mind is fresh... ideas seem to flow naturally... my thoughts are sometimes wild, whacky... waaayyyy out of the box... and I feel like I could uncover the secret to how the entire Universe funcitons (though it would be sooo off the wall, few would believe me)... and all of that before my morning coffee.
Late at night it's different though. I'm more warm... looking for a place to curl up... I'm more receptive and willing to peacefully listen to someone else's brilliant plan.
Time of day would have to be one of the biggest factors for me.
This whole CCC thing made me think about how sometimes my friends or me... we slam each other's ideas as stupid or lame... you know?
ReplyDeleteBKO said something in the AI talk-spot about violence in any form... and I realized... wow... how many times have I liked killed somebody's idea... or shot down their positive vibe.
I like to say I'm a peaceful warrior... but I've definitely got some work to do.
I think Maria's words about her mom kind of say it... you know? I gotta support people... instead of... I don't know... being secretly afraid that if their idea works they won't being hanging round here anymore.
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts on this topic. We're going to advance now to a new topic entitled, "Exotic Genius -- Your Wildest, Most Daring or Memorable Creative Experience" which was suggested by KBF.
ReplyDeleteIf you'd like to leave more comments here, you're welcome to, but we're hoping to engage you in what could be a very intriguiging conversation in the next round.
Thanks!